Beyond the Ladder: A Conversation on Values, Integrity and Leadership

When Philippe Clarinval picked up the copy of Beyond the Ladder I had sent his sister, he looked at the cover and asked: “Why is this just for women?”

That question struck me, because it captured something I’ve heard before from men who resonated with the themes, but wondered why the frame seemed exclusive. It also opened the door for a conversation I believe is overdue: are the climbs of women and men really so different, or are the foundations the values, the struggles, the need for clarity shared across all of us?

Caroline and Philippe’s perspectives come from very different worlds. Caroline has spent decades in humanitarian leadership, navigating crises where diplomacy and courage intertwine. Philippe built his career in hospitality, where creating environments of trust and connection is paramount. Different contexts, yes but the heartbeat of their leadership sounds strikingly similar.

What I loved most in this conversation was their honesty about nuance. Caroline reflected that while leadership lessons often transcend gender, she still feels the weight of perception as a woman leader, always aware of how tone, decisions, or even humor might land differently. Philippe emphasized that integrity is non-negotiable. He shared how he once risked his role rather than compromise his values, reminding us that legacy is built in those decisive moments.

Their dialogue was also a reminder of something tender and true: leadership is not abstract. It’s deeply human. It’s the way we show up for others, the way we listen, the way we create safe ground where trust can take root.

And perhaps the most important thread: legacy isn’t a far-off destination. It’s alive in every conversation, every decision, every ripple we create today.

The Story Behind the Episode

Caroline’s story already lives inside Beyond the Ladder. She has spent more than 25 years leading in high-pressure global contexts, balancing resilience with diplomacy. Philippe’s path has been very different, building a career in hospitality and, more recently, advising leaders on creating positive impact.

What made me want to bring them together on the podcast wasn’t just their question about gender, but the way they listen to and challenge each other. Their perspectives remind us that while our climbs may look different, the questions of integrity, values, and legacy are universal.

Key Takeaways and Insights

• • Values as a Compass: Both Caroline and Philippe root leadership in uncompromisable values, especially in moments of pressure.
  • Safe Spaces Are Universal: The need for trust and safety in leadership is not gendered; it’s deeply human.
  • Legacy Starts Now: The ripples we create daily, through small acts of empathy, clarity, and presence, are the essence of legacy.
  • Mentorship Without Labels: Both spoke of mentors and allies whose impact crossed gender lines, reminding us that support is about seeing the human, not the category.

Watch or Listen:

YouTube | Spotify | Apple Podcast