Clarity as a Compass: Tatyana Staneva on Commitment, Legacy, and Leading With Intention

Hi, Tatyana.

Nice opinion.

Happy, happy Friday. I hope you've had a good week.

I have, I have, and yourself.

Yeah, it's been a busy one. Lots of things going on. Some days, I don't know if you have this too, it's just you wake up and you think, whoa, my list is way too long. So I can imagine yours is too.

Well,

yeah, but this week was a short one because we had Easter. So I'm actually quite happy that it's already Friday and, you know, it's almost over.

That's true. That is true. Yeah.

Yeah, well thank you for taking some time on this Friday to talk to me. And I have to say thank you also for being part of this book because this mini series podcast that we're doing is focused on the people that I interviewed for my book Beyond the Ladder, which is ⁓ so close. I'm waiting on the book cover. That's it. my gosh, I can't believe it. That's the final stage and the printer has everything else and it's almost ready to go.

and my house is going to be full of books soon. ⁓

I cannot wait

to get my copy. I mean, you know that I admire your effort and I obviously I'm looking forward so

Yeah, and I'm thrilled

you're in it. And what I love also about the story that you shared, I'm assuming probably the way that you're going to answer some of the questions today is your ability just to push through things. And so I really admire that about you and your, it feels like fearlessness, but maybe there is some fear in there. I don't know sometimes, but your determination and the way that you just go is super.

inspirational and impressive. And so I'm looking forward to hearing some more of those stories today. So thank you.

It's funny you should say that because I think fearlessness, I actually sometimes think to myself recklessness. But yes, fearlessness is a better word. But yeah, sometimes when I look back, I'm like, how did I do that? But yeah.

Okay, it could be could be defined as that.

Yeah,

but that's good. And that's and I think that that's what's so valuable for people to hear. So looking forward to jumping in. So like everyone else, I have three questions that I'm going to ask you today. And the first one is actually corresponds with this idea of fearlessness and taking steps and doing things that you want to do. And sometimes we have, well, sometimes probably a lot of times we have situations in our lives where we have to make a big decision.

Yeah.

and ⁓ often people ask themselves, should I, should I, should I? And I ask myself, what if I don't do this? Because I feel that that reframes, it gives me a different perspective when I wanna make a decision. And I would love to hear if you've had some situations where you've also asked yourself, what if I don't?

Yeah, and that's a super interesting question and I did think about it. ⁓

I'm allowed to say that. Yeah. I didn't think about it. ⁓ Because for me, apparently it's not what if I don't. But it is... ⁓ I do kind of like make whatever decision I make the only alternative there is. And I somehow convince myself that there is nothing else. So I... it's... and I only thought about this because you asked me to think about it. And I just...

You are allowed to say anything.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

reviewed a couple of examples from my life or inflection points when I've done that. it was basically always, there's no alternative. Like for example, because I grew up in Bulgaria and I finished high school there and then I went to the US to study. And the whole process was a big application as you know, ⁓ and it took basically all of my senior year and even before that. And I sort of ⁓ framed my brain in the...

Mm-hmm.

this is the only thing, there is nothing else. The alternative would have been to stay in Bulgaria and go to university there. And I basically convinced myself that this is not an alternative. So had I not been accepted to a US college, I would have basically failed the entrance exams in Bulgaria because you have to do ⁓ entrance exams to study whatever. So I kind of focused on this.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

get the whole process of the application for the US and I only did that as if the other thing didn't exist. yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah.

And that forces you then to be successful. So do you have a

plan B also? So you don't have plan Bs.

This

is the thing, I mean I guess the plan B, I guess what is important is that I tell myself if it doesn't work out it's not gonna be the end of the world but I don't think about it ⁓ and actually I have another example because you asked me about plan B when I finished my ⁓ MBA or as I was finishing it and I graduated in 2008 which was just before the financial crisis went really bad.

Mm-hmm.

and I had not ever thought about going into consulting. I only applied to consulting roles that people invited me to apply to. I never sent out any CVs proactively. But in the end, out of the two job offers that I had, I chose the consulting one. And it was, again, at that point it was... ⁓

I had a choice to go to Austria for work or to go to Germany with this consulting job. And the Austrian one was in finance and the other one was in Germany, the consulting offer. And I thought to myself, if I go to Austria, I'm going to be alone. I'm not going to know anyone. Whereas in Germany, I know it's family more or less because I've been living there for a very long time. So again, I made it seem like

Right.

Austria is not an option because I don't have family there and this is not a rational business decision, right? It's kind of like Tatyana wants to feel good in life and I have a support network so I chose to go back to Germany and now when I look back at this decision it was the most brilliant perfect decision I could have made for my career after business school to go into a consulting ⁓ environment.

because it taught me so much and it let me rebrand myself away from finance, which is what I had been doing before and into business and into strategy. it, it taught me to, well, actually it taught me to structure my thinking because they picked up on something that I wasn't aware of that I am actually a very structured person. I didn't know that until I went into consulting. So yeah, again, I made it like Austria, not good, no family.

Right.

Germany excellent but there's this consulting job well okay plan B there you go ⁓

is that, so that's your plan B.

That's a really interesting way to think about things is to say, well, this is it. It's almost like you visualize, okay, this is the path that I'm taking, and you create your world around that and say, well, this is where I'm going.

But you do have thoughts about it when you're starting to make that. What is your filtering process in the beginning?

Yeah, yeah,

it is exactly like that. I have options. like I said, I tried to create more options. I tried to get more job offers that I did get two, which was okay because it was a tough environment and I still got two, but when I started thinking about them and looking at the contracts and looking at Austria versus Germany and this and that, I sort of...

I narrowed it down and all of a sudden it just became, no, it's going to be this consulting role and I'm going to go to Germany and I'm just gonna do it.

But for example, the, I don't know if.

When I came to the UK from Germany after living in Germany for 20 years, it was again one of these like tunnel vision kind of thing. I am going to London because I've always wanted to go to London and London seems like the best environment for me to grow and learn and develop into a new area which was business building basically. I wanted to ⁓ create businesses or help others create them. And it was again like tunnel vision. If I don't go to London where do

I was thinking well Berlin because it has a similar kind of vibe and opportunities.

but I focused in 2019 when I came here I just all of a sudden it was like I you know, shortklappen in German what are they called? shutters yeah I just like I shut out everything else and just decided it's going to be London and I'm gonna do everything and then it happened so yeah

Yeah, shutters, like, yeah, think shutters,

Yeah,

that's really interesting, but you do have that filtering process and then you build up all of the things that are gonna be beneficial to you. So it's not what if I don't do this, I'm gonna lose all of these very powerful things that are gonna help me grow as an individual. So you switch it and think about the very positive aspects of what it's gonna benefit you.

Yeah.

Exactly.

I think the what if I don't is also a way to frame things positively because it makes you think about what you will win from if you do it. But I just my brain doesn't work like this. It's kind of like very all over the place. My friends actually always say that she doesn't know what she's doing and then all of a sudden she does know and then it's like boom. yeah, that's clarity for action. My company is this when I if I don't have the clarity.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep.

Right.

Yeah, I was just going to

say that. Yeah.

I don't know

what I'm gonna do, but then when I want, I know I just go and do it. And I think it's this period of convincing myself that there is nothing else to do. This is the thing. And then it just works. Yeah.

and then go. Yeah,

I love that because then you're committed, I'm gonna do this. And I loved what you said at the beginning as well. You're like, and what do you have to lose? Most of the time there are always alternatives and sometimes you just need to also be in that situation. And if it doesn't work out for some reason, then other opportunities will arise and then you can go in those directions. But if you spend too much time thinking, I need to have all of these paths,

thought out, you're never gonna make a decision. So you have a very clear way to do that, which I think is really strong.

It distracts your energy. You know how they say that where the, where the, what is it? Where the mind goes, the energy flows or something like this. And it's really like this. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. So you put all of your energy forward. Yeah. I love that. Nice.

Very nice. That's a really nice way to think. And that's a real I'm going to actually take something with me every time. So interesting when I have when I have the opportunity to do these conversations, I always take something with me. And that's the thing that I really I think is quite powerful so far of what we've talked about is like just go and just go. Yeah.

⁓ Just do it, know Nike

Nike. Yeah, exactly. There's something said to be said about that. They do.

just do it They have a point there

Yeah. Well, on this path of yours, which has been a very exciting one, and I think it's really interesting to hear that you started in finance and then you challenged yourself and you moved into consulting. I know you've been at Pharma as well, so I know a bit about ⁓ your path, but I can imagine that you've also...

had a lot of individuals that have been in your path and that have supported you and have, you know, thinking about this concept of ripples that have had a very positive ripple on you. And if you had to list one or two of those people now, ⁓ although there are a lot, I'm sure, what would you say to them right now and how would you thank them?

Yeah, a lot. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

god,

I... They are basically... First of all, I want to tell you who they are because it's always when I think back and I'm filled with gratitude, it's always these people that I think of and it's always the people who hired me in my jobs. Like all of them. I mean obviously now I work for myself so I wasn't hired, I hired myself but... my... Good luck. But before that it was always the people who hired me and the...

Congratulations! Good hire!

and I know the name and I still keep in touch with the people who hired me ⁓ for the most part at least and they invested in me you know they took me because they saw something in me and it wasn't back in the early days when I just came out of college I didn't know anything about banking but they hired me in banking right and ⁓ they saw that I have character and that I have desire to grow

that I have stamina and whatever they saw I don't I'm saying these things now because I assume that that's what they saw but but it was almost always not necessarily the experience that I had it was always something that I saw in me so I want to thank them for seeing me whatever they saw and for investing in me because they have I mean I these are all my bosses basically that I have worked for most of them have been men and there is one woman who ⁓ was my boss at Merck in Germany and she was amazing and she's one of the

Can I say their names? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I would love to do that. So the first, so the woman that I was just talking about is Dornar Younesco, who is the general manager of the UK subsidiary of at the moment. But she was my boss at Merck, my last second to last boss at Merck. And she's a super inspiring pharma leader and she's a woman leader and I...

You can say, I think that, and that's what I really hope, is that you're comfortable saying the names because I feel that's so important to share this with people.

just get inspired by her energy. And she was one of the people who basically gave me ⁓ freedom to do what I wanted to do and has supported me all the way. But she came towards the end of my, I say employment career. In the very beginning, there was Salomon Smith Barney in New York and I don't actually know who hired me because it was a big recruiting process. But again, they hired me out of college and I didn't know anything really. ⁓ And they trained me in investment banking and it was amazing.

and I kind of like, yeah, it was my first job experience ever to deliver something and be paid for it was amazing. It was a tough role. did not like investment banking very much and I left it quite soon. But after that, I went to Germany and Klaus Kozak hired me at Dresdener Bank. Then ⁓ Martin Sieger hired me at KPMG. Then Bertolt Gertner hired me at Siemens.

Exciting. Yeah.

Then Marcus Barrett hired me at Roland Berger. Then Bogard Freibacher hired me at Merck. And then Juan Camacho hired me at GSK. And all these, they have all been men because as we know, there's more men in business still. They saw something in me and they hired me and then they taught me like Bogard, for example, at Merck. He's the most entrepreneurial corporate leader I have ever seen.

He knows when something is changing in the environment. He's forward-looking, but he also knows how to manage people. And I had the chance to learn this from him and watch him do it. And I can speak about everyone. Marcus Baird, for example, at Roland-Burger, he gave me a coach when I was promoted to ⁓ a manager within the consulting firm. He said, okay, now you get a coach because there are things that you can improve. And I'm so grateful for this because it was...

⁓ mm.

a for me to grow and learn and build on something that I had but wasn't quite able to utilize fully. yeah, I mean, I can give examples about everyone. ⁓ It's just, I just want to say thank you for investing in me really, to all of them. And there have been a few, David St. Denis, for example, who hired me within Merck from the Life Sciences Division to the Pharma Division and... ⁓

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, to all of them.

Unknowingly he set me off on my transition into digital at some point because I moved from commercial operations into digital health while I was working for him. They've all given me opportunities and ⁓ created lots of ripples for me to explore and to show myself and to kind of fail or learn, you know, all of these things. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, amazing, yeah.

both at the

same time. Yeah, yeah, sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not been just successes, obviously. It's not like I

sailed through and everything was always good.

No, definitely not.

What an amazing slew. Like you have this whole army of people that have been there and supported you. And of course we try to think of everyone in these times. I think it's so important and I believe also for them. So we'll make sure we get all their names right and we'll make sure we include that also in the transcript because I think it's so important to share that with them because I think it encourages people to keep doing that.

because they see you are like ⁓ a product, as an individual, you are the outcome of them potentially maybe taking a risk or giving you an opportunity when maybe others hadn't. And look where you have evolved since then. You're running your own company now, helping other organizations, also giving back, because I know that you also mentor also for entrepreneurs in the HBA.

Yes, absolutely.

those people have had such an impact on you to also give back.

Absolutely, no I absolutely I'm I basically I'm a little copycat as I think we all are in life more or less so but when you find a good role model and this is what these bosses they managers of mine have been I basically looked up to them and learned something from them by copying and So I'm a blend of yeah

We all are.

Yeah.

Fantastic. Well, copy away. Those are good things

to copy. And you're right, we all do it. And hopefully, because they do, those little pieces stay with us. And if you've had the opportunity to work with so many influential and positive people, that just helps round you as an individual even more, because you can take all the pieces with you. Incredible. ⁓ what a nice story.

Absolutely. Yeah.

all these incredible people. And it's also interesting to hear the, you know, if I think about the title of the book, Beyond the Ladder, and I talk about career paths that aren't a ladder, yours has definitely been as a prime example of no ladder. No, doop, doop, doop.

Yeah, mine is not enough. mine is like,

yeah, learning. Mine has been about learning and experiencing new things. So it's not been a ladder. It's more of a lateral flow. Go where it feels right to go and where the most curiosity is and the biggest chance to learn, I guess. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

flow. Yeah.

Yeah, incredible,

stories. Well, if we kind of go on to the next question from that, it actually fits nicely, because then we want to talk a bit about legacy. And I think legacy is such an interesting thing to think about, because we often think about individuals that aren't with us anymore, and we think about their legacy. But I, and I think a lot of people believe this, that legacy is what we do every day, and it's how we live.

and the things that we imprint also on other people and how we live. And if you were to think about leaving your legacy and what you would like individuals to think about about you, what would that be?

Yeah, so I really want to help people, individuals realize their business visions and by extension also realize their full potential. And I know that this sounds a lot like coaching and people do ask me, so is Clarity for Action my company? Is this a coaching company? It's not.

Mm-hmm.

But what I do create clarity for action. I focus on the individuals. These people are CEOs of startups or bigger companies, small medium sized businesses who have a vision which they express through their business. And my role, my legacy, what I want my legacy to be is that people remember me as she helped me get the clarity I needed to execute on my vision, to turn it into a reality. yeah, clarity is basically one.

I want true talent if you wish. when I look back on my career, you only realize these things in hindsight, of course, because I didn't set off to go to the US to study thinking, I'm going to create clarity around whatever. ⁓ But now when I look back, it's always in every job that I have been, it's always been me asking lots of questions and trying to make sense and connecting the dots and emerging like basically,

getting a pattern out of it and understanding how things work or what is not obvious so that we can uncover it so that it becomes obvious and my clients or these are also my friends and in my own life that's how I operate. I ask tons and tons and tons of questions and I don't forget anything although these days I'm aiding myself with notion and whatnot because it's just a lot of information and a lot of clients also.

you

All right.

It's a little different, but it's focus, listen, don't forget and then reorganize. I'm so grateful for my brain to be honest. This is coming from my mother and my father, guess. Yes, let's thank them too for my upbringing and for everything because the hardworking bit that I also have is from them. It's not from...

Mm.

We have to thank them too.

⁓ And I just think I'm grateful for my brain even now with AI and Chagi Ptm perplexity and all of them I use them all of course I just love my brain because it it just makes sense of things for me and You know it just kind of Helps me through life. I guess and I use it for the for the clarity creation. That's that's all it's ⁓

It allows me to draw on my strategy, my finance, on my innovation, on my operations, on my leadership, on my subject matter expertise, because I have a lot of knowledge about healthcare, but I also know about automotive, and I know about a couple of other industries that I'm interested in and all this, and it's all here. And it's just, yeah, I'm super grateful that I have this capacity and that I can work with it.

incredible. There's a book called ⁓ something library. ⁓ my goodness, then there there my brain's not remembering there's a there's a book and it talks about also how how your brain can work and you go to different shelves and you pull out different information that just was a thought about how how your brain works is that you can compartmentalize things and go and pull them out and then unravel and bring that clarity.

Yeah.

Yeah. And interestingly in my

brain, I don't think it's very organized. It's like a big mess. But when I need something, it's just there. Like I don't have, it's actually completely disorganized in my head. I feel sometimes. But when I produce writing, let's say, or when I create whatever the deliverable is for my clients, it's very structured and very organized.

Mm-hmm.

head it's like all over because I it's somehow intuitive in my head intuitive complemented by data and by subject matter knowledge and all that

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

So yeah, but incredible that you can use that every day in your work and it fits perfectly to what you do. And I have to think about your logo for your company where it's kind of the ball and then you bring that line out. And that's really, when I think about clarity now and I hear that word sometimes, I associate that with your logo because that's what it is. It's about taking all of this messy yarn ball and then you just pull it out and you bring that to individuals.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And going back to your legacy, I why I started talking about this is because ⁓ it is clarity that I care about. And I basically set up this company because I love clarity and I am at my best when I know what I need to do and I'm executing it. And that's what I want to give to people. So in a sense, I set up my little business to solve my own problem or, you know, like help others with the same problem.

But it's my problem first. it's exactly like this tangle, tangle, tangle, and then you kind of organize it and then it flows into a direction to get to your end result.

Yeah.

Yeah, incredible. Well, that's a beautiful legacy because I think clarity is what a lot of individuals need. And I think the world that we live in becomes more and more complex and more more raveled. And I think someone like yourself and your company and what you can bring to organizations and to people and also, again, to the volunteering that you're doing is incredible. So that's a fantastic legacy to leave. I love that.

Well, thank you. That's it. Those are the three questions. And it was fun. Thanks. love. Yeah, you're very welcome. Yeah. And and the book will be on its way soon. So keep your eyes open for that. And and then the podcast as well. And I'll be sure to list all of the fantastic individuals that have supported you and have been a ripple in your life. And I wish you. Yep.

My pleasure. It's been fun.

Thank you. Thank you for inviting me Sabine.

I will send them, I will send you their names so that...

That's what I was going to ask. Definitely need the proper spellings of names. Have a fantastic

weekend. I hope you're going to have gorgeous weather and some fun.

Thank you!

You too! Have a lovely weekend! Take care, Sabine!

Okay,

bye.