The Stories We Live Before We Tell Them

Hi everyone, and thanks for listening in today to Be The Ripple podcast. Today we're going to talk about a topic that I think is going to be very interesting for everyone to listen to. We've all heard it. You need to tell your story. It's become this rallying cry across the industries, leadership spaces, and even in social media. And while it might sound like just another buzzword, I believe it's showing up for a reason. Because storytelling is a bridge. It's a bridge to connection

builds confidence, and it also impacts our legacy. And it's not just what we share, It's not just what we share, but it's how we share it. And how we share it helps us to understand who we are. And in today's episode, this is very personal for me because I'm sitting down with someone who helped me shape my own story, literally shape my own story. And that's Samar Nahas She was the editorial guide and the copy editor behind

behind Beyond the Ladder. But more than that, she was a creative mirror. She challenged me. She was a partner through all of the messy metal. Samar is a narrative designer, and she has a background that spans literature, XR, visual arts, and philosophy. She works across many mediums, books, video, and audio.

And she loves to immerse herself into the experience and how she's helping people to really uncover their story. Like what's under what's underneath. So whether you're writing a book or you're navigating a career crossroads, I think that this conversation will remind you that your story matters and someone is always listening and the process of telling it can change everything. So, Samar, thank you so much. This is definitely a very personal podcast for me.

we've met and You were part of an incredible journey with me. And how about we start with, so this is how we used to start our calls, isn't it? So Samar this time it's me asking the questions and probing. So what's your story and who's listening and why does it matter?

Thank

Well, it's lovely to have to be here. Sabine, it was such a great joy for me to work with you. I mean, it's always such a unique experience when I work with people and with you is really lovely how quickly we became very, we came on a sort of a very heartful level with each other and we moved through the story quite quickly. And there was trust there right at the very beginning.

Yeah, you're right.

Mm-hmm.

a delight for someone like me when I work with people. Story is important. is, everyone's story is important because we're all unique on this planet and this idea that there's some people are have more valuable stories than others is a myth that we really need to.

Yeah, that is so true.

It is very, very, it's debilitating, it's unfair, it's unjust. It's an idea that was perpetuated by elitist thinking, and it's really not fair. You exist, you're human, you have a story, stories is really like how we make sense of the world, ⁓ and the randomness of everything and how we make sense of life in itself and our experience in it.

Hmm.

Yeah.

And so that's why we should care and that's why it matters.

Yeah, it definitely does matter, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, it so matters. You know, it's interesting because we often listen to, and I think that that was important for me also with the book and you helped me to really work on that, is bringing in stories of people that we know because we often hear and hear the stories of people that are in the media or that are prominent. I don't even know why we use words like that, but people that are maybe more well-known.

There's a question there.

Let's refer to them that way because you're right no one's more no one's story is more important than in others and I think it's so valuable to bring those out. And one of the things that we talked a lot about and what I think what people do is that sometimes You sit and you listen to certain people who tell stories if you're in an audience or you're reading a book and you think damn they are incredible storytellers and it seems to come so natural and

I think for some people it does. There's definitely some people that that have this innate ability to be able to carry us along and to weave weave us into their into their story. But do you think that it's actually a skill that we're born with? Or what do you think about how? How can we or can we enhance it? And can we can we come better at this story?

Well, the thing is we have to kind of differentiate between two things. One is the story in and of itself, and one is the delivery of the story, right? And so, before you can deliver your story, you have to have it down. You've got to have done the work and written it down or expressed it or explored it in some shape or form. ⁓

Mm-hmm.

true.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yep. So true.

Until you do that, it's really hard to deliver something because then it comes out a little kind of wonky and incomplete and some people would say inauthentic, but it's really, it's really about owning that story. And the more you own your story, your story has a life of its own. We like to think we have control over our stories, but we don't. ⁓

Yeah.

You're right,

we don't.

In our experience working together, you can do that really quickly.

There's a, we consider them as babies, of course, if we're writing a book or something, are, you you do feel precious and careful. And it's good to do that. But at the same time, it's to really understand that what emerges is one perspective, your personal perspective of what happened.

Yeah.

you

Hmm.

But that's not the only perspective on the story, you know, of what happened or the events that you're trying to talk about. And so to bear that in mind that the story has a life of its own and it will tell you how it wants to be told if you listen very carefully and kind of get out of the way.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

Ooh, that's a tough one. Getting out of the way, isn't it?

Yeah, it's

a tough one. But I think both skills can be learned. They are two different skills. The skill of digging and researching and allowing for story to emerge, allowing for the story to be told not just from your perspective, but from other people's perspective within that story.

Mm-hmm.

When you do tell a story or you have a story then and you say it from your perspective but say for example you have somebody else in the story maybe try thinking okay what was the story like for them from their perspective and seeing it from that angle and trying to see it from different angles and then allowing for that story to emerge.

And, and, in so doing, the delivery kind of gives itself, you know, in so doing, the delivery will come. Of course, there are techniques of presentation and how you put yourself out there. But some of us are just not extroverted. Some of us are quiet people who like to say, tell quiet stories. That doesn't mean the story that you tell is not going to be good.

In fact, sometimes the introverts have the better stories.

And maybe

to find the place to share the stories, it doesn't have to be on a stage. There are other ways, right? And I think that that's what's so interesting. You're right, I feel like we just became very close very quickly. Maybe it was because of the project and because it was so personal. But I'm so thrilled that that connection is there. But When I hear also around about what you do, you also have...

Right.

Yeah, your story is also very unique and maybe you can just share a bit about that as well. Just to where do you come from? Because you have.

Well,

I'm a Canadian Egyptian and I've been traveling around the world for quite some time. I've kind of lived in many different cultures and different places. We moved around quite a bit and I basically came to Europe, I think it was around this time, I think we got that, around the time you came to. ⁓

Yeah, like 98, yeah, right around the same time you

right.

In 98 I was there and didn't speak any German and found myself working cafes and clubs first, know, keep going. And that teaches you, tell you gastronomy teaches you a lot about people and watching people working, interacting with people and different characters. So that taught me a lot about working with people.

You

Yeah.

And then I started teaching English until my German got better. And then I studied German at the University of Cologne. I live in Cologne. I did an intensive and that really boosted my German. I like the language. I think that really helped. think it's always important if you like a language, chances of learning it are better.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And then from there that led on to started teaching English to executives, big companies, the telecom, Deutsche Bank, know, the RTL. And from there that turned into intercultural studies or intercultural communication, having to explain the differences between German business and, and,

American business styles and communication styles. That got me also reading a lot about communication and language.

And From there, that developed into translation because naturally it was like, OK, so your German's good, you speak it. I do write, I've always written. And so I was like, OK, let's do that. So I started translating. And then I did an intensive.

I call it my digital booster. I've always been a bit nerdy techie, but I had a one-year program at a college here for multimedia production. This was I think in the early 2000s, you know, we were doing Photoshop 5.5, HTML3, you know, building websites with tables.

Alright.

I video editing and that got me into doing web design, digital design, getting interested in digital storytelling, digital art. I'm also a multidisciplinary artist. So, and then I got into video editing and I edited,

video and film for a while and then I worked as a trainer. I taught video editing at RTL for years and that really took the story level, storytelling level to another level where I was working with audio visual material and telling stories not just through word but also through sound and picture,

in very small little films, know, for short films for the news for three minutes, five minutes. And teaching that was very interesting. I learned a lot. I learn a lot by teaching. I teach. then and worked as a multimedia and art director for various companies, creating branding, creating branding concepts for marketing.

Mm-hmm.

It's all storytelling of this is all of it is about storytelling.

Yeah, it is all storytelling.

And in different ways. like that. It's interesting to hear about these short videos that you had to create too, because that has to be that's always a challenge when we have more time. Potentially, it's easier to tell the story or ramble. But doing something in a very concise period of time and getting a message across, I can imagine is a challenge.

It was really about making sure that all the important things were there and everything that was unnecessary was taken out. And what was also important is about, it teaches you a lot about rhythm and beat, know, everything about rhythm and beat.

And because I come from language, I speak four so I come from language, it's a very auditory experience. so writing for me is an auditory experience. The visuals happen on their own through imagination, but the actual...

style of writing is really defined by someone's voice and then that is their, that's their rhythm and beat that they put in and where you hear somebody speaking and you can hear them through the words that they say and they write. And this is where in video editing and it's heightened because you really have to get the picture and the sound to work together.

And then you've got the text of the journalists telling the story. There's always a narrator in these stories, for the news especially.

it's interesting because a lot of the you're talking about also the auditory. So listening is a key piece of also what you do. During our process together, it was always really interesting. I would send something over or we would talk about something and you would reflect back to me something was like, my goodness, I hadn't even thought about that. So how is listening also when you're working with clients?

I think that we spend sometimes too little time listening. We're always, we want to speak and speak and that's such a powerful tool. How did you enhance that? And when you listen, do you have a certain way of listening?

I don't really know how I enhanced it. I've always been auditory in terms of, but I find also when I was editing, I would always tell my students, you know, sound is much more powerful than picture. There is something, it's, know, sound is the first thing that we have as babies. We hear before we see. And so,

the audio world is much more, has a lot of data and information if we pay attention to it. So I don't really know whether that was just how, I mean, I grew up in a very musical family that we had lots of music around. was I listen to music in very different types of music from...

Mm-hmm.

jazz to classical Arabic to Brazilian to, you know, the Jackson five. What a range. So I learned to pay attention to different things. And, and somehow it just, it just, it's just something that I can do. And I'm very happy about.

Yeah.

And I also, it's also about listening to oneself, you know, it's just not listening to others. And listening for me when you're, you know, as I work as a guide, you know, I can, I'm an editorial coach or consultant and mentor. These are all different.

Mm, yeah.

things, I see my role more in encompassing all of these things, but more as a guide. You are in your forest and you cannot see it for the trees. I can help look out and in and out and in by listening to you very carefully and looking at the bigger picture and going, I think this way is good, or I think that way, maybe I'll check this thing, you know, check that. And making suggestions and asking lots of questions.

So listening is everything. Listening is everything. You cannot do this without listening. And you can't even write without listening, I find. You have to be able to listen to yourself, ⁓ what you're saying. And yeah, so it's very, very important.

Yeah, true.

Mm, yep.

Yeah, it is very important. And when you start a process, so we started a bit, I guess, backwards because I wish we would have met earlier in the process because it probably would have been, yeah, for me, I think it would have been easier, but I was fairly far along and then we stepped in, but however it happened, that's how it was. But how did you...

When we started that process, and what did you listen for? When, okay, I was writing a book. And is that different when we were starting the process where we did? Or if somebody calls you and says, Samar I want to write a book. Where do I start?

Okay, well, in our case, in our experience, you already had the material and you were very clear the story was a book. So that I respected and that was that, you know? So it was more of like, okay, let me see what you have. And then in the conversations that we had to see where you were still unsure of where to go or what to fix. I could hear...

when it was solid and I could hear when it wasn't. And then instinctively knew, okay, here we need to work. What I loved about working with you was also that you had brought in the stories of these different women so that you already were inviting different opinions and different perspectives into the picture. This I really, really liked because you were then also...

taking from these other perspectives and that was enriching the work that you were doing. when we met, you were in full forest mode.

That

I was.

And

you're like, help, I don't see it. I don't see it. I don't see it. And it's like, yeah, OK. And so it was perfect, actually. The way it worked out was perfect. And it was also great the way you were receptive to ideas in terms of like, I think we need another chapter now. Or I think we kind of ended up with one or two extra chapters.

And shifting things around that you weren't so precious. I mean, you were protective, which is good, but you weren't so precious to say, we're not changing it. There was no rigidity, was a flexibility for you to move. And that was great to work with. So if somebody does come to me with material, that's, or they've already written, then I would hope that there is kind of a flexibility to change and move things around.

Because I can see a bigger picture. I can see the bigger picture, whereas the person who's in the story can't. Just by definition, you're in it. You're in middle of the soup, if you will. If somebody comes and says they want to write a book and they haven't written anything, I first want to see, okay, the idea of writing the book, a book,

is is is exciting. It's quite sexy for some people. But it may not be the right medium. And so it's more like, okay, let's find out what the story is first. So we have sessions where I'm we meet once a week or once every couple of weeks. And we talk and we talk about what it is that this person wants to

what the subject matter is, you know, it's just kind of like a process, we go through a process of gathering, foraging, searching, it's like we're in the forest looking for stuff. And then from there, allowing for process of immersion.

So the stories will start to emerge and then we go, ah, this is interesting. That's interesting. OK, let's talk a bit more about this subject here. And how is that? And then you start to kind of you're trusting up the process as it moves along, you know, and then once that kind of you start to get more crystallized of what the story is, then there's a bit of writing going on. And then we work in on the development of the writing.

And then we get to the stage where you and I were where it's like, okay, you've written that you send it to me. I look at it and I go, no, this thing needs to move over here. We need a bit more that that's missing. This is good. This is okay. You know, so stuff like that. And then eventually it will, you know, I it has happened where, you know, I worked on something and the person really wanted a book and I was looking at it and going,

This is a website with lots of blog posts. This is an idea for, this is an ongoing process as opposed to just one. But you can do the book, you could do little smaller, little mini

Yeah.

PDF publications to tease people in, but really this is a subject matter that you could keep growing with, and you'd probably be served more by having an ongoing blog and using that as to grow your readership and grow your network. I've even had one case where I was like, I think this is a script.

Wow.

you know, So it doesn't, It depends on what the person wants to do. But I love books. I love book format. I think it's and even the book format can change, you know, we think of a book of like, okay, it's, it's a book, it's got cover, and it's got lots of words and pages in it. But books can be very, very creatively gestalted, you know, that's the mind.

Right. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that the storytelling can happen audio and now with AR audio visually, you know, so and by integrating certain things within the book so that the book is a living object. There's a lot going on.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Wow. There is a lot going on and a lot of ways to tell stories. So what that is so beautiful. You're right. I I I had this idea for a book, but I love that you can also do some brainstorming and chat.

Yeah.

and Look at, You're right, this is thought leadership. So how do we get that out into the world? Could be, like you said, a video. could be lots of different things. And a book isn't a book isn't a book. So there can be lots of interesting versions to create a book around. I really like that idea. And I like the idea of being open, that people can come and say, all right, I have this, there's something here, and let's just go.

And so that to me says also that some people are like, I'm not a storyteller. can't tell stories. I don't really have anything to say or anything that people are going to be interested in. And what do you say to that?

Oh, it's just it's just terrible. This terrible myth out there that I would just love to shoot out of the water. It's just so sad. You know, for every human being on this planet, there is a unique experience of life. And I really believe that someone out there wants to hear your experience of life, because that's the only way we make sense. We can learn all you know, there's all this fact and information, and especially we're bombarded with it now.

But does it really make any sense in terms of who we are as human and what the human experience is in life? So, you know, and again, we need to differentiate between, you know, having a story and telling the story and delivering the story. These are different things. So it's almost like.

Yes, you have a story to tell. Yes, you have a story. Let's just put it this way. Yes, you a That is a definitive, right? Now, whether you tell it or not, you know, the story could be something that you write in your journal every day, but that's your story and it deserves and it has value to be there. And it could also be a story that you want to tell.

That's for sure. Yeah.

But it's also, you know, we tell stories all the time. You know, Like we, you know, you meet a friend for dinner, for a glass of wine, and she asks you about your day, or she asks you about your week, and you start telling her. The choices that you're making,

The decisions that you're making of how you're going to tell her that story so that she understands you and can visualize what's happening and understand and empathize with you. That is in and of itself storytelling. That's storytelling. And we do it all the time. Every time we express ourselves in a certain way, that is a tiny bit of storytelling there and there.

True.

you know, Whether it's in a meeting room, whether it's in a big conference hall, whether we're networking, it's how we choose to transport ourselves out into the world through the words that we use, through the images that we want other people to have of us. So and you don't really, we don't really know

what our experience of life is until we've let the story out. This is the other thing, you know, in the moment, you don't know what the hell is happening. Most of the time. It's only after the fact that you kind of think about it go, that happened today. Like you've had a bad day at work. Okay, and then but it isn't until say, your partner looks at you goes, how was your day and then you can go, look, it's terrible.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah.

Yeah, or yay!

day or it was

challenging silver lining, you know, it's a choice that you make in that moment. So I don't think I've kind of gone round the world.

Hmm.

Yeah, but what

I think is interesting actually listening to this is that one of the things that we also talk about in the book is like, I'm a big fan of documenting things and to have a place to document these little mini stories because life, we're bombarded, as you said, with information. It's flying at us all over, all over, all the time. We're just constantly getting input. And I think these mini experiences that we have,

can add to the story or we can use them to build a story in the future, but we can forget them. So write them down. Write these little instances. This happened today and it doesn't, you some people are like, I don't want a journal. I don't want to write everything down, but it doesn't have to be big, long journal entries, it can be your bullet points to remember and to go back and go, wow, you know, that was actually ended up being a very impactful moment.

And so I think that that's one of the things that we talked about also, I think is interesting to look at here is how do people start? If you think about storytelling and getting your story out and whether it be, doesn't have to, like we said, we doesn't have to be on a stage or you don't have to write a book, it can be at work. It can be in situations with colleagues that these stories can be impactful. Do you have suggestions for people on how they can start to kind of...

put these ideas together and think about their story, even their own.

I mean, you know, the process of story, it's often associated with writing, you know, so the journal is the first place to go, but it doesn't have to be that way. You know, sometimes I really don't feel like writing. And so I will pick up my phone and record. I'll go out on for a walk and I'll just walk

Yeah.

and record and talk about, know, and this is so lovely now, you wear headphones and so people think you're listening to music, but actually you're talking to...

You're talking

to yourself.

I

love it. the thing is, you you if we have to differentiate, obviously, if you're telling if you're if this is a subject matter that is work related, or if it's a personal story that, you know, overlaps into the professional life, but it's really about you and learning about you. The process is is really

is about self discovery. It's like wanting to know you and wanting to know your experience, what your experience in life is and what gems there are. And you won't know until you find a way to express it. Now,

it doesn't have to be word and it doesn't, you know, I also work in multimedia as far as, you know, in my artwork, for example. I work in collage quite a lot. I like to work in collage. It is another way of telling my story. It's another way of expressing that doesn't necessarily need words. You have to find what it is that you are most comfortable with in terms of

materials that you like to work with. And even if it's just a regular school notebook and a pen, which I really highly recommend if you're going to do some writing to just not do it on the computer. Or whether it's collage or whether it's painting or whether it's making music or whether all of these are story, you know, it doesn't have to be the spoken word or the written word.

So find something, then the really important thing is you need to commit. You need to commit. So I do something every day, whether I write in my journal or I record my voice or I sketch. I do it every day. I commit, am committed to this life of, to this process, if you will, of self discovery. And I show up.

The other thing you need to do, you need to show up. So you said whatever you you, you respect your process. You respect your time and you respect your journey. So you make the time for it. and, and to trust it.

This trusting the process means allowing the process to take you along and knowing it will take you maybe not where you want to go, but definitely where you need to be.

That's so nice. And you that is such a great way to look at it that you don't have to pull out a pen and paper or pencil and paper or whatever and to write there's so many creative outlets and I think that especially if I look at women leaders, you know, you're behind your computer a lot. You're you're reading spreadsheets and and

doing so many things that are focused this way. What's another way to actually enhance and to self-discover is to do something different. And that could be, you're right, drawing, painting. I also have a box of pens and paper downstairs in the living room that you can just get out and doodle. Well, sometimes doodling is also, but Those kinds of activities, I think you're so right, can aid to the creative process if you do want to write something or just to kind of free up your mind

and reflect inwardly, which I think we often spend too little time doing.

Moving the body is very important. You we underestimate the knowledge that's in the body and our physicality and how it affects our experience. And so I'm a big walker. I love to walk in the city, you know, so even just getting out and walking and recording your thoughts and your ideas for yourself, you know, 10 minutes a day,

is great. And that can always be transcribed or that can always be, you can take stuff out of that and bullet, like you say, bullet pointed. Yeah.

There's also a function, I know that we do a lot on the computers and with AI, but there's a really nice tool with ChatGPT where you can actually brainstorm back and forth and you can use the audio piece and save that transcript as well. So you're out walking and having a conversation and bouncing ideas. If there's no one else, then you can do it with AI. And that can also spark some ideas like, huh, I haven't thought about it that way before. So that can also be very helpful.

You're right, there are lots of ways to go and to get creative for sure.

And the really

cool thing about AI is that if you're going to work with AI, which I also recommend, I like to work with Claude quite a bit, is that you can get it to ask you questions. Well, people want the answers, but actually it's a lot better at giving you the questions that you need. So I always, when I start a process or I'm thinking about an idea or I'm working on developing something or developing a story, I'm like, ask me questions.

Yeah.

Ask me as many questions as you can to see as many angles and perspectives that I can and be critical.

Yeah, that's a really clever idea. Hmm, I have to take note of that one. That's a good one. So if you think back, because you've worked with obviously a lot of different people and processes and if there are there stories, obviously without anything that is confidential with anything that any individuals or companies that you've worked with.

Is there anything that's kind of changed the way that you see the world in these processes? In an individual one or others

think the big one, the first thing that comes to mind really the big one is watching your ego.

I think we also need to redefine what it means to be professional in this day and age. I feel like we've kind of lost connection somehow to what it means to be human. so, and in our attempts to be professional, whatever that means, especially as women, know.

Yeah. What does that mean?

And I think what I've always been a freelancer. So I don't really, I have the experience of working with big companies, but not in big companies. So they've always wanted to have the freedom to, you know, the, the, the framework within the companies to, you know, they, they have their demands, they have their branding, they have their, you know, requirements, whatever their briefing.

So that's the framework that I need to work in between, but I wanted to have the freedom to be able to move around and do things, you know, differently and was lucky to have really great clients over the years to do that. But the biggest struggles I've always had was this, you know, the creativity is tricky business. A lot of people don't quite know

that, you know, and so when egos start flying into the room, and that can be quite a killer for for for good projects are in good ideas. And when we self doubt because we're not in a

we're not performing in what is expected as or what is regarded as professional. We are cutting ourselves, you know, you're cutting ourselves off from our own creative spirit and our own intuition. And so and this is not healthy in any profession. And it doesn't matter what you're doing. It doesn't even have to be a creative profession.

I don't think this is a way of working that is constructive anymore. I don't think it's useful or healthy anymore. And I feel like there's more and more people out there going, okay, we've had enough of this, this needs to change. And I welcome that. I think that's one of the biggest things that I've seen move and change. And there's also changed the way I work in terms of

case, an age thing and experience thing as well. But that I don't compromise in those terms. Like I, I, I try to be as honest as possible and as as direct as possible, in a kind and respectful manner. But to to honor the creative process that's happening. I don't that make sense? Am I making sense?

Yeah, yeah, it definitely does make sense. Yeah,

it does. But yeah, but what definitely sticks is the ego. I think that that's so important that has to go. I guess our ego is always there. It doesn't go away, but it's to check it and and to not let it get in the way just to be aware of it, because it's we can't get rid of it. It's part of who we are. Right. So to pull that in. Yeah. Yeah. Really nice. Samar one of the things that that I have in the book, as you obviously know, is the legacy section

Yeah.

and I would love to hear what do you hope your legacy is.

It's a tough one that one.

I would hope to be known as someone who has helped empower other people and has made the world a little bit better place. Somehow, some way I am, I like to think of myself as a person of service in my little own way. And if it means helping others find their story and tell their story so that we can all

find compassion for each other and kindness for each other in a world that's burning up. I think that would be my, my desire, my wish, my hope for me in this lifetime, for sure.

That's

a beautiful legacy to have. I have to thank you because this journey, this was a very personal one for me writing this book. And I just can't imagine having done it with anyone but you. You just enriched my life.

my journey, were completely my guide. You challenged me, you praised me when I needed it as well. ⁓ When I would get the good job, I was like, yes. So that was always nice to hear too. But the challenges were good because it always made everything better. And those are hard to hear, know, challenges and you've put...

You

Yeah, yeah, I put my heart into every sentence, into every word, thinking about words that we use. But those challenges were key into making this something that's so much better. And when I hear the feedback of people reading it, just is incredible. And it wouldn't have been that without you. So thank you very much for bringing my story to the world. So you're a big part of that. Thank you.

I mean, it was very beautiful working with you also because you really embraced, as difficult as it is, the challenging thing is that you understood very quickly how messy this creative process is. People have really bizarre ideas of what creativity is. And everybody wants to be creative and they think it's all like La-di-da and it's like, you haven't, it's a bumpy, bumpy road.

Hmm. Shoo! It is. Yeah.

Yeah,

it is. It's very, yeah, we were talking about that, weren't we? It's like this romanticized, writing a book and storytelling. Well, there are like small aspects that were that way. I think it's more the end that that that comes into play, but it's very messy and it's very messy. It can be emotionally messy, too, right? So there's there's lots of things that come into play.

It's moving.

It's multi-layered, know, especially when you're writing it like for you, it was a personal project. So it was very close, you know, also. And it's you're putting yourself out there, you know, through this book, you are you are really putting yourself out there to go. This is what I'm giving to the world. And you have no idea how it's going to get received. This is huge. This is a very big thing. People underestimate how big that is. But, you know, for people were for those listening or watching this, it's just like

Yeah.

The creative process is messy. It's hard work. It's challenging. It's about digging. It's about failure. And what was beautiful about working with you is that despite that all, you stuck with it,

and you embraced it and you came out stronger every single time. I was very impressed. was very much in awe of you in the work process, how fast you did that. For some, it's not so easy. It's not an easy thing to do. So it was a great pleasure for me. I felt like, yeah, I don't think we had a chance, but yeah.

Thank you. You've never said that before. Thank you very much. It's nice to hear.

Samar thank you and for all the listeners that would be very interested in speaking with you and learning more about what you can do and help to bring their stories possibly to life. How can they how can listeners find you?

Well, you can, I'm on LinkedIn. guess we can, I can give you all the data for it and I have a website they can reach me on at. I'll give you the information for that. can. Exactly. I'm not highly branded. I'm a very quiet person online. Despite all my multidisciplinary abilities and skills. I like to keep it quiet. I always think the right people will come to me and.

Okay, I'll include that in the notes then.

Yeah,

and that they do.

Yeah, will be a right good journey.

Yeah, and connections and talking. think that that's something else that maybe we'll leave with is that sometimes saying things out loud and talking about things in a network because we were introduced, thank you to the motiers, to Nicole and Bruno. They were the ones that made this introduction. And it's so important that we do that for each other,

Yeah.

that if you know someone's about to go on a journey, to make those connections are so powerful.

Yeah, absolutely, very important. Because that's really at the end of the day what happened, you know, that's how we network. That's the, you know, who knows who and it's the best way to connect the word.

Yeah, absolutely.

And for all, and we have never seen each other in 3D, right? I know everything's been done online, that's crazy, but it's good. this month, we're gonna meet each other. You're gonna come over and we're gonna make pizza. So I'm excited about that. Yeah, we finally did it. Samar, thank you so much.

I'm not interested.

Yeah, yeah. And we'll have to take a picture so everybody to see. I was like, I did it.

It's a pleasure speaking with you and thanks for helping people bring their stories to life.

Thank

Thanks.