Where it all began…

Well, good morning, Emma, and happy new year. Can actually say that because we're recording this in 2025, the third of January. Did you have a good new year?

I know. Yeah, really lovely, really lovely. you and happy new year to you. It was very quiet. We were at home with kids and it was just it was just a really nice evening. So, very much looking forward to 2025.

Yeah, me too, I definitely am. And Emma, this is actually a very special recording or a special podcast because, and I might even get a little emotional when I'm talking to you because you are, like, meeting you and doing the course that I did with you, the TED Talk, that's where this all started. That's where this came from, so.

you're like, I think if you look at the spider web, you when you look at the, in the middle of the web, you're like the centerpiece and things are starting to go out from that. So this is just incredible and very exciting.

I know it's been, it's been an incredible kind of literally your talk about ripples has been just an amazing, everything that has happened after you started to write that talk, there's just been so many ripples and we've been pulled back together in different ways, different webs and it's just been amazing. So it was just such a delight. I mean, you you were probably one of my very first clients post COVID when the world sort of changed and

Mm-hmm.

Hmm?

Yeah.

Yeah.

this became a sort of digital life for a while. You were one of my very first clients and somehow or another we've just always had to of come back together.

Yeah, We do, and now we're bit stuck together, aren't we? Yay.

Well, it feels absolutely the right place to be and I'm really excited for you and for The Ripple Network and what that's going to create in the world.

Yeah, definitely I am as well. But what I'd like to do today is actually because I think you have such a beautiful, the work that you do is just amazing and is so inspirational. And we continue to also, you know, to talk about ripples and connections and how people in this beautiful network that we have is so interesting because that keeps coming together with us as well, doesn't it? So you get a note, oh, Sabine, do you know this person? And they may be interested in,

and also expanding and doing a talk as well. But what I'd love to hear is just a bit about you, Emma, and how did you get into the space and what inspired you to take this step into the coaching that you work on and to the speaking world that you support other women in?

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I describe my career as being very squiggly was gloriously squiggly. So I trained originally trained as a speech and language therapist. So have a deep scientific understanding of the voice and how the voice is made in the body and all the ways it can go wrong. And I love that work, but I didn't enjoy working for the NHS. I say that's the UK health system. I say that very awkwardly and uncomfortably because it is incredible. It's an incredible service. just

you

Mm-hmm.

it wasn't the right place for me. And so I left there and I joined a startup and we were running global events for pharma. So I spoke pharma language. So it was really kind of happy, and one of my jobs was to help clients with their messaging through their events to make sure it made sense, to make sure all the speakers were on point and they were all talking about the same thing in the same way. And then that sort of evolved into me helping them actually deliver on stage.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And I loved it. I really, really enjoyed that part of my job, but I always felt like a fraud. This was about 25 years ago. So I didn't know about... No, I know. I know. It's probably slightly longer, but anyway, let's stick with 25. And I felt like a fraud. So I honestly thought someone was going to come and tap me on the shoulder and go, you don't really know what you're talking about, do you? So I didn't know about imposter syndrome back then. It wasn't something people talked

That long? You've been doing this 25 years.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Um, but I definitely had a raging case of it, but I was still a very confident speaker, enjoyed speaking, enjoyed presenting, I enjoyed pitching for my company. And then I had my children and I felt like that confidence just very gradually disappeared over a period of about eight years, Um, and I just got really curious, like what is going on? I don't feel like me. I don't feel confident in the way I feel confident.

Mm-hmm.

you

I didn't feel like I had anything important to say and I knew that I wanted to get back into this world of speaking and voice. So I auditioned to do a master's degree in voice coaching and training at Royal Central School of Speech and Drama. So had to go and do what they called an audition, which literally had me quaking in my shoes. You have to learn a poem, you have to give a small monologue.

Oh my. So you literally have to audition for the spot.

You have to do an interview, you have to write an essay, was like, it's a whole big deal because they have 16 people and it's a global application. So there's thousands of people that apply and I managed to get a place, and it was unbelievable. It was the most difficult and the most transformational year I've ever had. Really, really incredible. You have to look at yourself so honestly and figure out what's going on for you. And then

figure out how to use your voice in this amazing way. And I loved it, absolutely loved it. And I came out and I thought, I want other women to experience what I've experienced without having to do that master's degree, that ability to find your real voice, your authentic voice, and then be able to use it in whatever way is meaningful to you. That, when I came out, I was like, this is it. I found my purpose, this is what I'm meant to be doing. And I never looked back.

Never look back.

Exciting and then you've just evolved and you've I think that you do so many different things also with supporting and coaching and and you have you've done some coaching courses as well.

Yeah, so yes, I'm certified one of many coaches. So where we use archetypes to help women find their kind of their authentic voice for that particular moment and whatever it is they're trying to achieve. And I work with women all over the globe. They can be in corporate spaces or entrepreneurs, but they really want to develop their authentic voice in ways that are again, meaningful to them, meaningful to their business so that they can be

their expertise can be recognized. That's one of the things that I work a lot with people. It's like, you know, know I'm good at my job, I know I'm bright, I know I'm these things, but nobody is seeing that. Often that's about the way that we're showing up, the way that we're moving, the way that we're breathing, the way that we're speaking, the way that we're phrasing our questions or statements, they impact on how we're seen in terms of our credibility. So yeah, working with women to really establish that and close that authority gap that we have between

men who for some reason, for lots of biological and sort of social structure reasons, are stamped with authority. Naturally, women, we have to work a little bit harder to close that gap for ourselves and often that's about the way that we're showing up.

Wow, that must be so gratifying to also to see the changes that and the clients that you have that you work with too to find that voice and to find that authority.

Yeah, and sometimes it's tiny little tweaks. I've just been working with a lady and she's amazing at her job, absolutely brilliant. But she was told by senior management she needed to be more tactical, more strategic, sorry, in her communication and in her work. And so we went to all of her work and like, okay, what are you doing? And she was doing all these amazing strategic things. So it's like, okay, it's not what you're doing. It's how you're talking about it. And so we just started to change how she was speaking about the work that she was doing.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

right.

Relating it much more to the stuff that was going on. Three months later, she's been offered a head of country job, which is a huge, and she's done nothing differently. She's still doing the same work. It's just that she's talking about it in a different way.

Mm-hmm.

Incredible.

Yeah.

different way. Yeah, and that's what I love, think also a bit about to think about to talk about The Ripple Network a little bit is that, you know, the idea was sparked, obviously, after after my TED Talk course with you to get the story out because I thought there's so many stories that women have. And just because you don't get invited to be on a stage, you should still should have the opportunity to be able to share your stories.

But it's also interesting, it's not just about inspirational talks. I think it's exactly what you say about how do we talk about ourselves and in a very comfortable, strong way and not feel that we are, you we hear all the time women feel uncomfortable because they think they're bragging or that they don't feel authentic when they're talking about their skills or how they show up every day. So I think that that's a beautiful place as well that for The Ripple Network is that you can work on that.

You don't just have to have an inspirational talk.

No, no, absolutely. And it's so important that we can do that positive self promotion. Because as women, what we do is we tend to assume that our work, whether that's our work as an entrepreneur or our work within a corporate structure, speaks for itself. We assume that everybody understands the complexity of what we do. We assume that everybody can see the impact of what we're doing. And often that's not the case, even with our bosses, even with the person who's the closest to

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Yes.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

knows exactly pretty much what we're doing. And it's just not the case. So we do need to learn to be able to positively talk about the things that we do, but in ways that are not problematic, because we're stuck in a double bind. So if we talk about, positively talk about what we're doing, positively talk about our expertise, positively talk about the impact that we're having in the ways that our male colleagues do, we tend to get a bit of a backlash.

Mm-hmm.

Here we are.

you

So we have to be able to do that with real warmth as well. And when we can combine those two things, that works really well. So it's really important to be able to do that. Otherwise, when we get to a certain stage in their career and then they get a bit stagnated and they get stuck in what we of call the washing machine and they sort of go round and round and in a sort of similar stage of their career for such a long time, you it usually takes a little bit of a sort of a boost to get through that and into the next level. But a lot of it is about how we are, how we're showing up.

Mm-hmm.

Up to everybody else in terms of our potential. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yep. Well, we're here to boost. That's such a great way to describe it. So if you were to take, we've talked about like, like what is the The Ripple Network? And if you were just to start by using a few words to describe it, what would you, how would you describe it?

I think first of all, and I think this is really important because of genetically how women work as well, I think the first thing is community. This is really lovely, this is going to become an amazing community of women. One of the things that I totally underestimated when I started my leadership program, leadership communication for women, one of the things I totally underestimated was sisterhood and the idea of women coming together.

Mm-hmm.

I don't know why, but it just didn't occur to me when I was putting all of these things together. And actually, I think it's one of the things that people really value by the end of their journey. It's like, it has been so lovely to travel with you on this journey. And, you know, that I think the Ripple Network is going to be an ongoing version of that. It's like you don't have to leave. The course doesn't come to an end. But you've got that community with your peers. You get to network across the globe.

Right, yeah.

You get to make connections that you wouldn't make otherwise. And so I think community is one of the first things I think is going to be super impactful for women. I think also it's a safe space because it's probably, I mean, not that men are excluded and we would, I'm sure, welcome lots of amazing men. But I think it's going to be an amazing space, safe space, because it's going to be women who are wanting to do the same thing. They're going to want to,

So true.

Yeah, true.

Mm-hmm.

talk about themselves positively. They're going to want to share their stories, their impact. So I think for me, you don't necessarily always have that at work. You may not have that within your family group. You may not have that within your friend group. So this is a safe space where everybody's got a similar or the same goal. And I think that is really powerful because that keeps you going. It's like having a gym buddy. It's going to keep you going.

Mm hmm. Yeah, true. And a diverse and a diverse gym buddy too. That's the beauty I think to add to to kind of add on to that I think that that safe space, but with a global community that can give you feedback and get the different perspectives, which is nice as well.

Yeah, definitely. I know that we found that really helpful in the group where you were doing your TED talk. It's one of the ladies in the group who I hope will come and join us in the The Ripple Network. She had a talk that could potentially be quite controversial. It was challenging material in a good way. It was really making us think, am I on board with this? that really how I feel? And I know you and the other group members were very good at kind of going, OK, hang on.

Yeah, yep.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

I just have to sit with this a minute. Is that really going to make me think about this particular topic in the way that you want me to, or is that going to push me away? So I think that diversity of thought, diversity of experience is super helpful here.

Mm.

Yes.

Right, so interesting, Emma, that you say that because just reflecting back also on our time together in that course. And I think it's so right that safe space and to be able to get feedback on difficult topics. And I think we all felt very comfortable because we knew that we were in this bit of a cocoon. We knew everyone that was there. And And just to let that honesty out, because that's what's important, because we were there to also support each other. We wanted we wanted to make her talk,

you know, better and to improve it and, and, and just coming at it with that perspective was so positive and such a, yeah, just a wonderful eye opening experience, I think for all of us to be able to give that type of feedback.

Yes. Yeah, I mean, and it was, I mean, just in that we were a relatively small group, that's great, but just the diversity of experience, a diversity of difficult topics that people wanted to talk about what I, you know, is super interesting. it's, it's an amazing growth for us as the writer speaker, but also just listening to other people's experience, life and talk. And, you know, it does, I think it really impacts us, but you're right. That honesty is so

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm.

it's so valuable. It's so important. You know, what you don't want is someone going, that was great. That was really lovely. And actually, you know, terrible feedback. It's very nice, but it's terrible feedback because I can't do anything with it. Or it's like, yeah, that's really interesting. And that bit is really challenging. I'm struggling to kind of feel OK about hearing that or that really touched me, know, mean, the number of times we were in tears as people were talking about different parts of their talk, you know, in

Yes.

Hmm. Yeah, exactly. You're like, yeah. Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

and good tears and laughing. You we want that emotional connection. So honesty is really important and having that safe space to be able to share honestly and with love is going to be really, really important for people.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Yeah, absolutely. And then to let go of our own egos as we get that feedback also. Yeah, it was a really, it was a very much of a learning experience during that process as well.

And that could be hard, right, because we're sharing our story. And so, you know, obviously our ego is very tied up with that. And so we, you know, it's a challenging process, but you say you have to be pretty open to kind of, it's what a friend of mine would call killing off your darlings. Like, you know, you've written this amazing stuff and you...

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You see it in presentations, you see it in books, see it in all areas, like, you created this beautiful little darling and someone goes, that one has to go. And you're like, but that's my darling. So, you know, being open to letting go of you and killing off your darlings is really, important. And having that safe space to be able to do that is going to be so important. I think The Ripple Network is going to offer that safe space.

Yes! No.

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely very exciting. Yeah, killing off darlings is a tough thing because but it makes you better. I've experienced and experienced it in the course. I've also experienced in the process of writing my book and the copy editor. I send something off and I'm like, yes. my God, that was so amazing. And it comes back. Ding, ding, ding, ding. She's like, you know, maybe look at it this way and like, man. But every time, every time it's better.

Yes.

Nailed it.

And that is so important that, and I think that part of any type of process like this, when we're in a community and we get feedback, it makes us better and stronger in the output and what we're doing. And that's what we all want ultimately. So no, absolutely.

Yeah, and that work is never wasted. It's never wasted. I had exactly that happen to me. And I wrote this whole thing and someone said, no, that's not, you know, that's not going to achieve your goal. I'm like, but it's, this is really good stuff. And I took it out, put it to one side. And then one day I was looking at it, was like, oh, actually that's a course. And I just took what I'd written there and I rewrote it and reconfigured it and created a course out of it. And it's like, oh, great.

Yeah.

Yeah, there we go.

The work is never wasted. You can use it elsewhere or it's going to be the springboard to something else, but it's going to make you think about something else or there's going to be connect. It's never wasted work, never.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm, No, absolutely not. Exciting. All right, so when did you say, all right, I'm in, I want to be a part of this community and to be a partner because that also means that you're going to be offering courses, you are going to be giving expert feedback. What made you decide to become part of this?

No. Yes.

I think it was kind of three levels really. So the number one, and I think the biggest one was you, because you, through all the work that we've ever done together, you are someone who really cares about women in the workplace, whatever that workplace looks like. You are through HBA and all the other work that you've been doing, know, championing to close that gender pay gap. You are championing women throughout your organization and

you have such a lovely drive and a, but with a light touch in whatever you do. You're very passionate about what you do. And I thought, I want to be involved with what you're doing because whatever you're doing will be, you always created a success of it. And it's just, it's just a lovely space to be in with other women who are creating their business and driving. So I think for me, that was, that was a big part of it.

And then when I met Gina and I saw the tech and how this was all going to fit together and how we could create that community and how people would come together. And I was like, Oh, I can see now technically how this is going to work. And then I met the other experts and I was like, okay, this is a brilliant, this is a brilliant group of women who I would be honored to be part of the expert group. And so for me, I think it was those three levels,

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

that really made me kind of go, yes, this is really important. And of course, the underlying philosophy of it is like, we want to amplify women's voices and women's stories. And this is a great way of doing it and that creating this beautiful springboard for whatever they want to go on and do, whether that's, you know, small scale community work or global community work. doesn't, you know, it's a brilliant place to begin. So for me, I think it was those three things that kind of went, yeah, this could really, really work.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm so pleased to remember when I called you I was like, oh, please, please, please, let her want to do this. It's like, I'm asked to be a part of this. So I'm so pleased because it was the same for me to work with you and for you to be a part of this is also so special because I just every time I speak to you, I'm motivated and I'm excited and you bring such an interest. You just bring amazing, interesting, amazing perspectives.

You know, I'm not gonna be expected.

and the way that you articulate yourself is incredible. So I'm really excited to learn from you and how you do that as well even more. So really happy that you're here, Emma.

Thank you. I'm really excited. I can't wait to see what happens in 2025.

Yeah. And I think, you each partner, as you mentioned, has unique skills that they bring into this process. And you've shared quite a bit of yours, you know, as you and for me, it's very evident that you need to be a part of this. But if you think about some of the individuals that are going to be part of this and some of the courses that you're going to offer as well, what would you describe as your very unique skill sets that you bring to the Ripple now?

I think it's a kind of, sort of overall, I think it's about that combination of science and art. People tend to think that speaking is something you're born being able to do. know, someone's a great communicator, or they're just really good at it. And they sort of put them on a pedestal and just go, and just kind of assume that they were born that way. And I think for most people, that's not the case. And I genuinely believe everybody can become a good speaker. So I think for me, it's about understanding.

Right. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

How the voice is made in your body, how it works, literally what needs to happen for things to work well. And then taking that arts perspective, which was my master's degree, which is about how do you engage an audience? And then really helping people show up authentically. So it's not about trying to emulate, we were talking about Michelle Obama earlier, it's not trying to be Michelle Obama unless you're Michelle Obama. It's like,

Mm-hmm.

All right. Right.

Well, actually, she does that really well and I would love to incorporate that into my toolkit. Great, then take it. If you don't like how she speaks, then you don't need to try and emulate her. It's about who, how to be you, but 10 % shinier. And I think for most people, that requires a shift of perspective of who we are. Because we tend to focus on all the things that we can't do. I get really nervous. I can't do this or...

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Yep.

this happens or, you know, I've got an accent, hear that so many times. you know, don't, English is my second or third language. And it's like, and I have a bit of an accent. It's like, it's your third language. Amazing. And you're doing, you're doing a TED Talk. So we focus on the negative and not on the positive. So I think one of the things I'm pretty, pretty good at is helping people shift that perspective and beginning to own their expertise and feel comfortable that they can own their story. It's like, have a right to stand here and say that space,

Yay. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

then I help them figure out what it is they really want to say so that they're hitting the right intention, not just telling everybody everything that they know, because that doesn't really work. And then I think the final thing is about how to deliver it. So how to confidently stand there on stage and feel relaxed in your body, feel relaxed in your voice, not feel like you've got the pressure to be perfect. We were talking about this earlier as well, know, it's that ability to connect and not worry about being perfect. It's like...

Mm-hmm.

Yes, yeah.

Yeah.

I really want to make a connection with these people in the room and being able to do that comfortably. So I think for me it's bringing together the mind and the body so that you can communicate the message you really want to communicate.

Yeah, and authentically, you're right. We were talking about that earlier. And I think that that's one of the the the beautiful things of this and the ripple network and what I hope and I think what we all hope that it brings is that you what is perfection? There is no perfection, and some people struggle with with memorizing. But we can help you. Are there tools that you can that you can utilize in order to make it a bit easier? Can I have

Hmm.

props. Yes, you can. Can I have a slide or two that helps me? Yes, you can. And that is all that is what's so beautiful is that I think we want to break some of the stereotypes of what is a quote perfect talk. There is none. And so how do we make it just perfect for ourselves? And as you said, the connection piece is so important. And imagine that again makes me so emotional. Imagine opening that world to women.

Yes.

That just, that's what we want to do is to make them feel comfortable with my note cards going on stage. It's okay. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. I think when you come and join the network, think within moments you're going to see, over time you're going to see lots of people sharing different stages of their talk and you're going to see different kinds of brilliance. You're going to see the great storyteller, very enigmatic, charismatic storyteller, and it'll be amazing. And you're going to see the very quiet, slightly more reserved,

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

you know, slightly more emotional, personal stories, and they'll all be brilliant and they'll be totally different. So I think if there's a place where you've got your way, if you need to know that you can be you, I think this is going to be it. And you're going to see that really, really quickly. And you'll see from the expert feedback as well, you know, nobody's going to be trying to make you kind of homogenize and cookie cutter. And you have to do it like this because that's not going to work. It never works.

Yes. Yep.

Yeah.

And you know, sometimes you'll see people trying to go, well, you should do this, you should walk like this, and you should stand like this. it's like, hmm, that's not right for that person. doesn't work. So yeah,

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, because I think we see we compare and I think that that again to your point to not compare to others because each person brings their own unique style and that's the piece to enhance is to not try to change your style to be someone else but to enhance who you are and your quirks. The quirks are good things so how do you weave those into the talks and into the conversations that you have at any level whether it be an inspirational one or you're just presenting to your team at work.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because the more you're you, the more memorable you're going to be. The more you try to emulate other people, the more homogenized you become and the less memorable you become. So actually, it's not beneficial to try to be like someone else. And I think we have to break this sort of, there's a societal mold of what a great speaker looks like. And that tends to be modeled on the masculine, because let's face it up until now and even now.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Yeah.

Yep, exactly.

Yeah, so true.

You know, how many "mammals" do we see all the time still? Lots of male or male panels. You know, we don't see as many keynote speakers as women at events. And when we do see women at speaking events, they don't get paid in the same way that men do. Either they don't get paid at all or they get paid a lot less. So we don't have enough female models of what speaking looks like and sharing your stories looks like at the moment. It's all based on sort of a masculine paradigm.

So hopefully The Ripple Network is going to be that place where you get to see lots of different models and you can, you can literally, it's going to be like a sweet store. You can go, I like that. I like the way she was that. And that feels comfortable for me. Hmm. And you can pick and choose about the tools and the skills and the, the things you want to develop for yourself that are going to work for you in your way of communicating.

Yeah.

Yeah, ooh, that's interesting.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. One important piece is though, that it does depend on you, that is the thing. So I think it's important to let people know that you don't just like sign up and get a membership and it's like a magic wand is waved and off you go. You're a great speaker. There's a lot of work that goes into this and it takes your initiative to take steps. So, you you start by creating a video, introducing yourself. How do you introduce yourself? Also something that we don't think about too often, but

starting there. So this is a place where you can do that, that you can actually practice how when I walk into a room or how if I'm at a networking event, how do I introduce myself? Because that is such an important thing as well. And then you build from that, all kinds of assets, but it does it. You're you're the key. You as the individual have to say, all right, I want to work on this and I know I'm going to do my recordings and I'll load them up because there is no magic wand.

It's a lot of work behind it.

No, I mean, I would be a very rich woman if that was the case. I'm not. But yeah, I always say to people, it's a bit like using that gym analogy again, it's a bit like signing up for a gym going once and expecting to come out with the perfect body or incredibly strong. It doesn't happen. It's, you know, speaking is an act of doing. So I could give you all the books, you could watch all the courses, you could watch every YouTube video there ever is on speaking and how to do it well. And you would know a lot of stuff.

Exactly. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

You wouldn't cognitively, you'd have a lot of things in your brain. You may not have developed the skills, the physical skills. So, and just the experience of being in front of a, you know, slightly more difficult crowd or one that has lots of questions or one that is busy doodling and not really paying you any attention. You haven't got that experience. So really a lot of what we are going to be encouraging people to do is like, great, do it again.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Great, do it again, go find someone else to talk to, great, go do it again. We'll of saying, do it again, try this, do it again, try that, do it again, try this thing over here, so that you are developing those skills. And as you get stronger and as your muscles improve, we're gonna say, okay, right now you need to challenge yourself, now you need a bigger audience, or now you need to do it without the notes, or now you need to, whatever. And we'll be pushing you and challenging you to do

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

more and more and more because it really is about that practice and about reflection as well. Coming out of something and saying okay not doing what everybody does which is the very first thing everybody does which is like I didn't tell them about this I've got to say that.

Mm-hmm, so true.

I know I did that Tim's like, shit, wanted to, my most important point. I think you even told me about this one time you did a talk and you're like, one of my most important points. I didn't do it. I didn't share.

But actually what we want to be focusing on is, okay, what did I do well? What worked? Because we're shifting that focus away from, I'm not enough, I'm not good enough, I'm inadequate somehow to, I'm getting better and I'm doing more and more of this. And then thinking about the one thing that we can improve, not the list of 27, because that's impossible. You can't do that, not effectively.

Mm-hmm.

So yeah, so a lot of what we're going to be doing is about supporting people to focus on what worked really well and what's the next thing I need to do that's going to shift that needle to make me an even better speaker, communicator, sharer of stories.

Yeah, And it's just taking that step. And it's so true what you've said, it's really, it's doing it again, doing it again, introduce myself in a different way. How do I introduce myself to, I don't know, a board? How do I introduce myself at a networking event? And that practice is so important. I'm still doing it. I have, we're gonna see each other this month in a couple of weeks actually, where I'm gonna actually give my first talk in front of an,

Yeah.

a live audience. And so that's a big step for me as well. And yeah, do I feel I'm also a bit nervous, but I also am comfortable with like, I'm going to do it my way. And and that's the most important thing. And if I miss a note or I miss, you know, this one this one word, that's not important. It's what you said in the beginning is the connection piece, which is so important. And that's why I think that this this community back to the community, what you mentioned in the beginning is so important,

because you have a long time to work on these things and you can try and practice and throw a new video in and how easy you can just that's I think the beauty of it as well is that you can sit you can work on something and you load up a video and you can get some feedback so it makes it very practical as well.

Yeah, absolutely. Because that's the delivery. We can help you with the content. We can help you with the delivery, can help you with, is this, is what you've written actually matching your intention? One of the things to think about is like, what's your intention here? What do you want that audience to feel, to think, to do when you finish speaking? And then making sure that the content that you're putting forward is actually matching up to that intention. Because if it isn't,

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

it's a darling that we need to kill off. It's amazing, but we do need to get rid of her. you know, it's, you know, we're, I think, you if you're a bit like the guard rails, when you're bowling, you know, we're going to help that bowling ball stay on the alley and knock the skittles down and not end up in the gutter. So, you know, we're there to sort of course correct as you're going along.

Yeah, so true. Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm. Yeah. Nice. What do you call the pins? You call them something else. It's interesting. Schiz... No, but it's interesting also the different words. Again, something also to use words that also words that are going to connect and that are going to be that'll be global. Yeah. Good segway, Emma, to that point, because that's true as well, because I think we had that during when we did the course as well. There are a couple of times that another

whistles. Yeah, that's a very English word, yeah, the pin.

Yes. Yeah.

member of the course and I did as well where we use terminology which was from our childhood but not everyone would know what that is. So that's also interesting because we obviously use words that we're comfortable with and maybe not everyone else understands what they are.

Yeah, and it makes complete sense to us because it's within our framework of our understanding, our schema. it makes sense. think there was one point, I think, where you were talking about the red thread. And we were like, the red thread? We've never heard of this. And interestingly, since then, I've had two or three other European clients who have all in some way or another mentioned the red thread. It's like, so in Europe, that would make complete sense because it's part of the sort of the

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

You

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

It's part of the language in my part of Europe. It wasn't what we say. So it didn't make sense. And it wasn't resonating, I don't think, with our US clients. So it's interesting how that global community will help with things that make total sense to us. That actually may not make sense to a more global audience.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Oh, Emma 2025, it's going to be an exciting year. And anything else that you want to that you'd like to share before we come sign off? It's been really fun conversation, thanks. What a great way to start a Friday with you.

Yeah, absolutely, I know. I think one of the things that is important to kind of think about is like the personal impact and then the sort of organisational impact of doing these kinds of work. Because I don't think there's another area where you can do work, as it were, and stuff that's going to impact your work that is also going to give you the same level of personal growth,

Mmm.

because I think there's something about this that just, you have to look at yourself and you have to kind of really think about who you are and how you feel about yourself before you can start to share who you are in your stories, in your speeches, in your presentations, whatever it might be, in your introductions, in your networking. And I don't think there's another space where you can get that. And the self-esteem that comes from, I did it, I got up there and I did it. I did it without notes this time,

So true.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

standing ovation or whatever it might be or I fluffed it up and I didn't worry about it, I just carried on. Whatever that moment of victory is for you, think this work provides so many opportunities for those kinds of moments, those kinds of personal growth moments to arise in ways I don't think any other work does. I think it's a

A lot of impact, isn't there? A lot of aspects of our lives.

Yeah. And then of course, you know, if you think about your career, that credibility aspect, there's a connection that we make in our minds between how well someone speaks and how good they are at their job. There is no relationship between those two things at all. None, except in everybody's so that means your boss, your boss's boss, the people who are in charge of your pay rises, the people who, I mean, you know, kind of make decisions about your career. So being able to do this is a leverage skill. And the more

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, at all.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

is.

who are brilliant at this, the more women we're going to have in senior positions. The more we have senior positions, the better diversity we have, everybody is happier. Organisations work more effectively. for me, it's not just about what you're going to get out of it. It's actually, this has a global impact.

Mm-hmm.

It does have a global impact. Yeah, definitely, Yeah, it really does. Yes, it does. So we're excited to get started. Yeah, it's new. The platform or The Ripple Network has been live for just a few days. So we look forward to seeing you there and to check it out. And lots of opportunities if you just want to give it a give it a try for a short period of time. So look forward to seeing people there.

Yeah, we've got some amazing programmes, amazing courses, lots of free courses, some paid courses, and I know there's lots of really fun, interesting features which are coming down the line, which are really going to help build that community as well, come and join us and share your stories.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Yes. Yeah. Right, and it is an evolution. This is as well. This is also something new. So we'll see where it goes. I'm excited that you're a part of it, Emma.

Okay, thank you for inviting me to join this brilliant, brilliant platform.

Thanks. See you soon.

Bye for now.

My stop's not working.