The Long Game of Leadership – Romina Oxborogh on Values, Voice & Vision

Hello, Romina. Happy Happy Friday to you.

Hello and happy Friday to you.

Yeah, what a nice way. You are my last official call today. So it is such a treat to end my week with you and then to slowly start moving into the weekend.

Yes, This is nice Friday feeling.

Yeah.

It is a nice Friday feeling. And thank you so much for taking the time to be on this podcast with me and to answer the three questions. you also, I'm so pleased that you were in the book and you agreed to tell and share a bit of your stories, your career successes, and some very inspirational quotes. So exciting, that's getting close. So the book will be out soon and then people can learn more about you.

But before we get started today, I obviously know you very well and we've had the great opportunity of volunteering together for many years now. And I was calculating back, I think the first time we really started like really kind of working together on the volunteer basis was in London, right? When when the one of the summits happened in London.

It was at the summit

in London, I want to say, was it 2018?

Something like that yeah so it's been a while you can't get rid of me.

It has been a while. Time goes quickly. Absolutely quickly. Yeah, no, it was.

It must have been. yes, and it's been such a fantastic experience. It's been great to work with you, but it's been great to work also with HBA and with the rest of the team. And it's interesting because I still been through thin and thick in some ways. And that builds a great relationship. That's how teams.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's true. Those relationships, think volunteering together just builds a different kind of bond because you have this common goal and this passion and something that you believe in and work together towards. And yeah, it's been a wonderful experience volunteering for the HBA. And the HBA is, for those of you that don't know, the Healthcare Businesswomen's Association. So you can definitely look up more. And if you want to meet great people, can...

Get built, right?

get involved in that. So I obviously know you fairly well, but for those that don't, will you share a little bit about yourself?

Ah, yes. Absolutely, yes. So I'm Romina Oxborogh. I live in London in the UK. I've lived in London for 25 years, but I've lived in many other countries. I lived in Italy. I grew up in Argentina. I lived in France. I am a scientist by training, have a PhD and worked in science, clinical development and pharma all my life.

I started working as an event scientist and then moved on to manage science. did an MBA because I realised that I actually wanted to, once I started doing management and you start doing numbers and budgeting and focusing on managing people, you really want to learn the other side of what you're doing. And so I an MBA, which was really, really helpful in that respect. then.

Yes, I worked in, moved to the preclinical world, clinical world, post marketing, occupational, wearable data study. So I feel I've done the the full cycle of, and I've kind of started from preclinical, which is really interesting. I kind of kept moving my way, my way through that. Up the phases and up the drug development cycle. And worked also in where I'm focused on at the moment, was called Manishax.

Full spectrum, yeah.

Yeah. Up the phasers.

programs, so access to medications outside of clinical trials and collection of real-world data in the space. So yes, I feel I've been all my life working in Parma. At the moment, I work for a company called Cisiv, and I am their Chief Delivery Officer. Sorry, I got my job title wrong,

which essentially means that I am accountable for delivering work to our clients. I manage the operations team. I also work on implementing strategy. I work very closely with the CEO of the company. And it's a very exciting time.

Yeah, I think in general it's an exciting time in drug development where things are going. If you look at biotech, you look at pharma and just the space that we're in. And what a diverse life slash career you've had. So not only do you bring so many cultural insights into your life and into work, but also as you said, working from, yeah.

preclinical and the early drug discovery phases to where you are now is incredibly valuable. As I think about women's careers or I guess anyone's careers along those lines, it's about, and the MBA that you did, you're constantly upscaling and improving your knowledge to be able to also grow your career. So impressive.

Thank you. Yeah, it's just part of, I guess it's part of who I am in some ways, I think learning and having, you know, essentially growth mindset of thinking, well, actually, why can I not do that? And why should I not do that? Or what is out there that is different? And how can I use my skills and what are my strengths? And, you know, we all have choices and it's absolutely fine to choose,

not necessarily to progress and to find a stable job that you really like and that allows you to do maybe other things. But I think there's nothing wrong in being ambitious. And I think sometimes, and I faced that during my career on, you know, talking to people who maybe asked me, where would you like to get to? And I'm like, well.

I'd to get to the C-suite and I need to somebody say why? I think you will. Would you be asking that question to a man?

Yeah, nope. Nope, probably not. No.

not right. There's nothing wrong with being ambitious. There's nothing

wrong with wanting to progress and to keep learning and there's nothing wrong with not wanting to do that and finding your space where you excel and building on that knowledge essentially.

Yeah, definitely challenging yourself. So we all have different levels of how we challenge ourselves. And for you, it's a clear step to move into the C-suite and potentially lead a company. And that's what you work for and that's what excites you. And to your point, I think it's also important that others don't and they can, and others wanna be fantastic at the level where they are. And...

What's so fantastic is that there's space for all of that. And thank goodness that there's space for all of that. Yeah, well, let's dive. That actually leads in nicely to the first question that we have today, and it's about playing it safe. And I know that you haven't always played it safe, so it's going to be interesting to hear your response to this. But If you reflect on your career and you reflect on a big decision that you had to make and.

Absolutely.

you

you ask yourself or have you ask yourself, what if I don't do this? What if I don't take this step or make this decision? How would you have or How would your career potentially been different if you hadn't made a particular, maybe you can share a particular story decision that you made?

See, it's really interesting because...

really difficult question to answer for me because I think I've made so many decisions that have been pivotal that have actually made a huge difference in my career but also in my life because of course your job is interlinked with your life and with for example where you live. When at one point I finished my PhD and I applied for a what used to be a Marie Curie industrial fellowship I was

I finished my PhD in Italy and that was to work in the UK. I mean, if I hadn't done that, obviously my life would be very different. I've been in the UK now for 25 years and I would have had a very different career in Italy. I probably would not have met my husband. It's absolutely pivotal and when I reflect back, there have been so many...

decisions like that. that have been people tell. I am actually trying to, I don't think there are many decisions that wouldn't have been, if that makes sense. So I think it's really, It is absolutly pivotal, question really makes me when I reflect back because it goes back a little bit of about own, you know, how I feel like, how you see your career.

How you see, if you like, your life. Do see yourself as finding a job, a lifestyle, a location that you really like and you do that and that's great? Or are you open-minded to growth and to learning and to exploring and to finding something a bit different?

and trying and failing. mean, all of those decisions, all of those different changes I made, could have all kind of failed. It would have been a safe failure. I mean, you can always go back and do something else. So trying to answer your question is quite hard because I I have made a lot of decisions that have made me move into different countries, to different jobs, to different situations. And even within...

Thank

Because you've had a lot, it sounds like you've had a lot of this very pivotal.

within my career. And I can genuinely say, I'm never moved to the same role at the competitor. Again, there's nothing wrong with doing that, but I would have been moving to the same role. I've always moved to roles that were quite different from what I was doing before. So guess it's just the way I am, I suppose.

way you work and are you nervous at times when you take those decisions? Yeah.

absolutely. I'm a list person. have done so many pros and cons lists.

So I would sit down and do, pros, cons. What happens if everything goes wrong? What if I absolutely hate it? What if I don't get on with the team? What if, you know, what if I'm just not good at it? Or what if I find that that's not the environment for me? And I have had that situation. I remember

You

Okay.

moving to a job that on paper was great and actually was a great job. It wasn't for me. wasn't, it didn't play to my strengths. It wasn't the environment I was happy in. mean, the team were lovely people, but they didn't have the kind of goals that I had. And I very quickly, literally in the first three months, realized that that wasn't the place for me.

Adios.

But that's

great that you realize that so quickly and that you actually

Yes, I know. then it was a

little bit disappointing because I thought, how do I make this mistake? Right. And what am I going to do now? I don't want to leave today. I don't want to leave them in trouble, if you like, because we're lovely people. It's a great, great project, great, great idea. It just wasn't for me. So it takes, it takes some, know, conscious decision making of, OK, I'm going to do all of I need to do.

Yeah.

to get this, I need to set up something, to get it all set up in the right way with a mindset that once I've done that, I am going to leave because this is not the right thing for me. And sometimes it's not that easy, but once you've made the decision, say, well, okay, I know where I'm going, I know what my goal is, and I know where I'm going to try to achieve, and you do make those mistakes. But that was quite early on in my life, in my career life.

And actually that was great because once that happened once, I kind of knew that if I made the same mistake again, it's not irretrievable, right? The worst that could happen is, well, it's not quite the right place for you and you're gonna have to potentially move to somewhere else.

Right, yeah, that is so true.

and they're always options. I think sometimes we feel that there aren't, but they're there.

I think so. I think especially, I mean, we are privileged, let's be honest, we are privileged because of where we live, because we could have an education. So we always have to remember that we do have options. Actually, I think it'd be disrespectful to people in countries and situations.

true.

Yep. Yeah.

where they don't have options to actually feel that we don't.

Yep, so true. Yeah, you're so right. We're in such a privileged position. Yeah, we're definitely privileged. Okay, so idea and point to reflect on is that there are options and you can make your lists and you can fill a notebook with lists, but it's still also okay to make a decision and have it not be the right one because that's life and.

more so more privileged. Yeah.

and you just, can't know. I wish we had a magic ball and we could look and to see and have everything be simple, but then you don't learn either, right? If you take, every move that you make is always smooth and easy, then how do we learn from those?

And I know

people might disagree with this, but if every mole were easy and smooth and almost predictable.

and we would be really, bored.

Yeah, I think so too. Yeah. Although sometimes I like it. Sometimes it's just a little bit, but yeah. Yeah, a couple of weeks of, yeah. Yeah.

I know, and I've also been thinking, yeah, but I could do with a couple of weeks of boredom, right? So it doesn't happen very often. But imagine if

your life were completely planned and if you could now know when things will happen, I mean, it would really be interesting. I'm just not sure.

It would be boring. Yeah.

Yeah. Then what's the fun of it? That's the part of the fun of waking up every day. You just don't know what's going to happen. So nice. And then along those lines, if you think about some of the decisions that you've made and the people that have that you've been in touch with and contact with, is there someone that

you feel has had a really significant impact on your career, on your life. And if they were here on the podcast with us, what would you say to them?

There have been many. think that's the reality. guess I've working for more than 20 years or more. So I've been lucky to have met so many different people, great leaders and some leaders that were not that great. And I had to say, they were actually really helpful as well. Even if it maybe was frustrating or it was a bit painful.

But I think it was really important to work with very different people. And if there is somebody who you think they're not a very good leader or they're not a very good manager or they don't really, you know, it's very difficult to work with them. I think it has always been useful to analyze why and what they're doing that is not working and

and learn what you don't want to do, essentially. But in terms of leaders, I had really very, very good leaders during my career. I think that's always been, so it's key because it's key to have somebody you can look up to and think, okay, that's the kind of role model I want to follow. It's important to have somebody who gives you feedback, good or bad, because that's really the only way you learn.

And yes, I mean, I remember a particular leader and

I would say I wouldn't say I always agreed with everything she did. But it was, there was so much learning that I have done from that person. And what would I tell them, I suppose is, know, it's really interesting because of course, maybe they don't even know that they have such an impact on my career.

Thank you.

But I think what was really important was the role modeling. She was so good at what she did, absolutely excellent at what she did. She had very clear principles and you knew what they were, like guiding principles on what were the priorities and how you approached some things. Did she get everything right? No, no, absolutely. But it was.

Definitely was a learning. I think the leaders I've have always admired are those people who are very strategic and who are trying to essentially have a goal in mind and who work to get to that goal without ego. It doesn't need to be, yes. So the people who

without ego.

who are essentially are motivated by the goal being achieved, not necessarily by being credited with achieving the goal, which means that they could, they would, and that was really strategic, influence and work with people in such a way that the goal was achieved. When you analyze what they did, you realize that they really were behind getting that done and influencing and managing behind the scenes sometimes.

Yeah.

to get there. their goal wasn't to get credit for that achievement. They just wanted to make it happen.

Yeah, that's a really, first of all, an incredible skill set and then to let your right, let that ego fall away and to have this vision of where you want to go and what needs to be achieved. And that's it. And you can just stand in the sidelines and potentially never get credit.

The reality is people will know that's what it is. It doesn't need to be, you know, externalised.

It may not

be the big flashy, but people know.

love that. That's true. That's great. It'd be fabulous if more people were like that. Yeah. Nice. I love that. And would you like to mention your, you mentioned a woman or would you, are you going to drop her a note? I think that that's the nice thing to do. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

think that's what I'm to do because I don't know if they would be happy with being named. you know, I'm always very conscious on, know,

privacy.

Maybe you can send her a link to it and say this was about you. Yeah,

nice. So, and as you think about your legacy, your own, yeah, legacy and how you want to be thought about, what would you, what would that be? What would that legacy be?

Mmm.

Again, hard questions, you have to be really...

It's been a long week.

⁓

Again, think in a way, I love to know that the work I did has made a difference. And it's small, doesn't have to be very huge. But it's made a difference to individuals. And really that's what I think is legacy, is making a difference to the people around you. I think this is why I'm...

I've been always very keen on volunteering for the HBA. For example, mentoring, I'm doing mentoring. And I've been doing this for quite a few years. And it's just so good to see when people succeed, right? When you can pass the knowledge that you gained. I think that's probably my biggest objective now moving forward is on

you on the knowledge of all of these years of doing what I've been doing. And I mean, I'd love for people, you know, for example, to say that, you know, that I was a good leader, that, you know, I could get things done, they always knew what the vision of what we were trying to achieve was. So I think those would be great legacies.

So I'm not thinking about anything big, but in making a difference, make a difference to the people around you essentially.

But those could be big. That's the thing. Yeah.

Yeah. But that could be significant. You never know where those people are going to go and the impact that those people are going to make. And I think that that's the beauty of living in your legacy is that what we do today can have such a long term impact on others and keep going and those individuals than on others. So you never know. Yeah.

Remember.

Absolutely, I'm not sure if that's what being human is, isn't it?

Yeah, it's such a beautiful cycle.

The cycle of life, I guess, yeah.

pass on.

Yeah it is. Well thank you. I feel very privileged that we know each other and I learned from you too also in our volunteering roles and to see how see how you work and the way that you articulate the way that you think and you are very strategic and I've definitely picked up on a lot of that over the years working with you so thanks to you as well from me.

Thank you. Now it's been a pleasure and it's been such a good team to work with. And I know we'll keep, we will always be in touch and we will always work together in one capacity or another. Yeah.

Yes, we will. Or another, exactly. So we have our calls

now scheduled, which is really nice. I think that's a tip for people too. Those people that you wanna stay in touch with, right? We made the commitment to each other that we've scheduled calls at least once a month to catch up and see how we're doing. And that's just so important to not necessarily think, ⁓ yeah, next month, next month, but to set that time.

Mm hmm. Just make the time.

really important. Well, it's important for me and I think for you as well that we do that.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think that's the other thing. when I suppose when you you when you get to a more senior level, right? It can be a little bit of a lonely space sometimes. And it's so good to talk to other people. But also, again, thinking about sharing information, thinking about, you know, what are

other companies doing, what are people in the country doing, what are people in other sectors doing. It can really, really open your mind to some ideas and it's about that growth mindset of what can I learn and what can I pass on essentially.

It does. Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. All right, well thank you for spending some time with me and I wish you a fantastic weekend, a relaxing one and fun. Hope you have good weather in the UK. So keep our fingers crossed, yeah.

It's sunny at the moment, yes, it's looking good. Likewise, Sabine, lovely. Thank you for

a great conversation. Thank you for the very thoughtful and quite challenging questions. Yes, we've been cut.

Thanks.

Yeah.

All right, talk to you soon. Bye.