Stress as a Signal: Mary Morrison on Leadership and What Happens When We Listen

Hello there, Mary.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (00:03)
Hi, Sabine. Nice to be with you.

It is always a treat to be with you. And thank you very much for taking some time and to answer the three questions from the Beyond the Ladder series. So this series is all about interviewing the fabulous women that are in the book Beyond the Ladder and their wonderful stories of inspiration. I thought it would be really nice to actually hear the voices behind the words on the page.

and I thought that this would be a great idea to interview and just have a few questions, few little nuggets and insights to each of you. So thanks for doing this. And tell us, maybe you can tell us, because it's also interesting where everyone's calling in from. Where are you?

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (00:43)
Thank you for asking.

⁓

So we are live from Washington DC in the US.

the US. Good. Mary, you're the CEO of How We Heal. And maybe just if you had to do your pitch, your three sentences or three, what would you say is the impactful piece behind what you do?

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (01:11)
You know, my purpose in being and so my company is helping, supporting people to find, to actually use their stress symptoms as pointers, as wisdom. So the way I look at it is everybody is stressed, has stress symptoms and those are powerful pointers for what you need to be paying attention to.

for you.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (01:39)
So rather than suppress them or get rid of them or bypass them, which, you know, I want you to go to yoga and do all the things for fun, not to de-stress. So we would actually use the symptoms to kind of decode them to see what's the messaging here that you need to be looking at. So that's my purpose. It's like, want, we're all stressed out. So it's like, are we getting less stressed? absolutely. Yep.

And in, interesting. Yeah. And In leadership too, I'm assuming, right? It's in leadership roles. Yeah.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (02:09)
It's any role where you feel like you are, you can make a difference. it's entrepreneurs, it's for business leaders, it's for team leaders, it's for family, people leading families. Someone who's a solopreneur and things aren't moving forward. Well, the way I look at it is like the stress you're feeling about that is it's like the medicine is in the poison.

The path is in the pathology. So we look at what is going on and then you have a set of skills to then practice so you can kind of unpeel or unpack what's going on.

you

There's a lot going on. So I can imagine that a lot of people need to have those discussions, Yeah, and not run away from them. It's really, It's a really interesting point to actually to take the stress and not to push it away, but actually to work with it.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (02:57)
There is a lot going on.

Yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, Turn

toward it, be with it, create something out of it that's actually useful and powerful.

Yeah.

Yeah, and

that's real. That is interesting because it steps away from this concept that we always talk about pushing it away and thinking, how do I not have it? But we're always going to have it, aren't we? So how do we best deal with it?

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (03:36)
The saying goes,

stress makes great diamonds, right? Geologically. But then, right? It's very human to. And Also we're collapsing the word stress. There's obviously different sensations and experiences all humans have under that word. So that's why it's very important to know that when we've gone beyond the diamond stage. we're...

Mmm. Yep, true.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (04:04)
That it is impacting our health and wellbeing. And like what we're also unpacking is like how is that rippling into your organization? Because your culture mirrors what you're going through. Like you have a thumbprint that's going or an imprint that's going into your organization. So we wanna make sure that that's something you can actually undo and recreate.

stream.

Sure. Yeah.

Yeah.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (04:34)
Using your symptoms, using your stress. So yes, it's a unique way of shifting culture, creating health and well-being in a person and in your culture, right? There's many layers to the skills, but they're fairly straightforward and simple, so it's not actually complicated to implement.

Mmm. Yeah.

Hmm. It's always interesting to look at things a bit differently. That's it's it fits perfectly into the first question that I want to ask you because We often ask ourselves or we're in situations where we ask what if what if I do this? What if I do this? What if I make this decision and I like to put a bit of a spin on it just Just as you do in the work that that that you're doing to help people is to ask instead of what if to ask what if I don't so

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (05:19)
Mm-hmm.

I would love to hear from you about a time when you faced a big decision and instead of playing it safe, that you ask yourself, what if I don't? And how did that moment create a ripple in your life or your career?

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (05:31)
Mm-hmm.

Well, a lot of things actually are like popping like popcorn, as you asked that question. And, you know, I think it would be like, as far as our career thing, you know, I have been a Chinese medical practitioner for over 15 years and about four years ago,

you

Mm-hmm.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (06:01)
I mean, gosh, I was like, okay, so what is the best use of Mary in the world? And yes, Chinese medicine is amazing. Like I encourage people to seek out the, as a type of perennial medicine that's useful for anything because there's nothing new under the sun. Chinese medicine has a much bigger context for a human being who's not well. So I had a...

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (06:31)
decision to make following COVID that, ⁓ did I want to maintain a clinic? or if, if, if things were going to like shut down as they did in the U S do I want to be like that, that hamstrings me as a, as a business person, even though Chinese medicine actually in any plague, any type of plague is quite useful. However, I made a decision that I didn't want to be.

Right.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (07:01)
the person that that handles like infectious diseases type thing. That was just not, that was definitely a training angle, but I was decided, you know what, I know what the best use of me is and it's not that. I had to make a choice and it's quite scary to go from busy clinic to go, ⁓ I think I'm going to do coaching instead. So that's actually complete. It's not a completely different business model, but it's where you're going from,

Mm-hmm. Right.

Okay.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (07:29)
you know, maybe in person to definitely online, but there was this part, but the best, but the way, the way I decided that is certainly like noticing that I felt really open and I call it spaciousness in my body. And when I think about that, like the coaching takes the best use of me because consistently throughout my professional career, people have said, not only have they gotten better, but they've also said, and that thing you said,

Mm-hmm.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (07:58)
that you had me observe, I actually understand my stress symptoms better or where my back hurts or my head. Like they became the practitioner rather than me telling them what's going on with them, right? That's to me true healthcare. Okay. So the best use of me is to hone that conversation with people that do have a ripple effect inside, because what I was getting was, you know, business leaders and cause Washington DC is full of important people that

doing really cool stuff. And so that was a number of my, my clients. So, so I decided like leaving my practice in order to do this thing was a very big deal. And it's been, ⁓ it's been an ongoing, like, how do I bring this type of conversation? Where do you have agency in your life? How are your health symptoms or physical symptoms are related to your leadership or company symptoms, so to speak,

Bye.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (08:57)
and making that interconnection. Certainly I've had other, ⁓ habits where I'm like, ⁓ man, if I, if I do this, what will life be like? Well, How will, can I make it financially? Can I like, We all deal with like, is this the right thing for me? But I, But consistently I'll say this for all these pivotal moments when we're thinking, Ooh, should I do this?

Mm-hmm.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (09:27)
I pay attention to my physical symptoms along with the data, along with the financial spreadsheets or whatever I'm analyzing to help me make the decision. Because that's good, hard data, you need that. But then it comes to like...

Mm-hmm.

Yep, that's a part of

it.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (09:51)
Like I can only describe it in my body as like, huh. And there's like, huh. And it's kind of like, huh, like a little bit of mood, like a little huh. I want to know more about that. So, so that's how I, that's been a guiding light throughout my entire life. And when I've ignored thtatt,

You

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (10:09)
things get a lot harder. Like pathways become, you know, one obstacle after another. So I'm a big fan though of make a decision. Like just make a decision. Doesn't have to be the best and brightest. But if you feel like spacious and like, ⁓ keep, just keep going in that direction. If it's not going to work out or whatever, you will come up against these obstacles. And then each moment you can decide to keep going,

tweak it, have that conversation, maybe that can smooth that out. But I'm a big fan of going and making decisions with all the data, which is including you and your physical sensations guiding. Yeah, the data. We forget the data. The data of this. Head to toe.

You was the data. Your own data. Yeah. Yeah. And the data and the data

in that situation is your intuition. So feeling it. love that. I love that example of feeling that spaciousness. And I think so many people, if you, if you sit and ask yourself that question, what if I don't do that, that we start thinking of words in our brain and we start thinking of sentences and framing, putting the sentences together into paragraphs to make these decisions.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (11:03)
Yeah!

But how about listening to what's happening in inside?

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (11:24)
Yeah. And as you do that, it's just

a little tweak, right? You can think of all like, ⁓ what if I did that? And just noticing how you're so in Qigong. So I'm a Qigong practitioner. so it's this opening and closing that we, the humans do all the time, nature, right? We are it, we are nature, right? So in, in the opening to me, that's a yes. Or ask more, right? Build upon the yes. If there's a tightening, it doesn't mean no.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (11:54)
Like this is the nuance and the granular stuff about this. It doesn't mean no, but it's gonna go, huh. What is it about this? So we do this, but it's the thing is, Sabine. right? We do this, actually do this all day every day. We just not haven't made it, we're just not as aware of it. And actually making it slightly more aware through the skills that I teach, it doesn't take actually time. It doesn't actually take more time to

Mm.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (12:24)
just stop and go, wait, I've been doing this type of decision-making likely since you were a little kid. So bringing that back to just to be more present with that added dimension of decision-making. It honestly makes things a lot more smoother when we use all of it, because we're just going by what I call hard data.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (12:53)
I don't know. I make a lot more mistakes when I or create more obstacles when I don't when I'm not using my sense perception. Yes, intuition, right? That's also one of those words like stress. It's kind of a garbage word is what I call it, which means what do we mean by that? But it's like all intuition is and I heard this definition a long time ago because just really you're really aware you're really present in the moment,

you

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (13:22)
all of your senses are open. So there's smelling, hearing, and you're like, and then you're like feeling something almost undescribable. And you go with it. So it's not some abstract nebulous, whatever, woo. No, it's actually part, it comes part of your design as a human being. And unfortunately, I think that's been talked out of that.

Mm-hmm.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (13:52)
We've been talked out of paying attention to that because it's not the hard data. But I think my experience is that very, very big part of being human. And we don't want to take that out of the human decision-making process. I say.

Yep,

Fantastic, so big career move for you was when you ask yourself, okay, what if I don't do this? Then, and a big shift, and it's been a very positive one. We can have also, yeah, reaching more people. We have lots of conversations around that, so interesting. So that leads beautifully to the next question that I have for you, and thanking people is a very important part of our lives. And I think oftentimes,

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (14:19)
Yeah.

Reaching more people for sure, right? Yeah.

we do it, but we could probably do it a little bit more. So if you reflect on your life, who has been a ripple in your life? So shaping how you lead today, and if you could thank them right now, what would you say?

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (14:55)
My gosh. So one of the, It's funny, I was thinking about all these different mentors I've had over the years. And I think the one that still has imprinted on me the most and is Bob Duggan. He was the founder of the Acupuncture School that I went to, one of the founders in,

of the acupuncture school in Maryland that I went to, and he's passed. And I keep actually a little photo of him. Actually, I keep a little photo of all of my teachers on my screen saver as a way to remind myself of how I'm here. Yeah. You'll find that a lot of Chinese medical people will have, well, not a lot, but a few will have the

That's incredible. I've never heard of anyone do that. That's beautiful.

Mm-hmm.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (15:52)
pictures of their teachers that they most felt that they were responsible for how they do their medicine on the wall. so anyway, Bob and his daughter is also carrying his, the work forward, but that's how I came to know that the body is wise. Symptoms are always teaching you about, ⁓

something you, it's time to deal with, not suppress and use it as a wise guide. I was fortunate enough to have an apprenticeship with Bob before he died in 2016. It was a three-year apprenticeship. This is way after acupuncture school I graduated from. And this is where I was, it was like a twinkle in my brain perhaps that I wanted to do just coaching. So way back.

And so if Bob was here, it would be, ⁓ my gosh, you're the person I am today. Bob is from the, all of the teaching lessons, all of the fascinating questions you have asked and my life, ⁓ I can't imagine not having the skills and the tools that I have now. ⁓ if, if, if, If I hadn't met you, I'd

Yeah.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (17:19)
I mean, I just can't imagine how I'd be navigating the world now. So, you know, a deep, deep vow of gratitude to you, for helping me share and help other people. Like you said, pass it forward. I continue to pass your legacy forward.

Yeah.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (17:46)
Thank goodness for mentors.

That's beautiful.

Thank goodness for them and thank you, Bob. Because of Bob, our paths have reconnected as well because of Bob. So we can't underestimate the contacts and the impact. The ripples that these people have in our lives are incredible and it's so important to thank them. So we're grateful for Bob being in your life.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (17:52)
Thank you, Bob.

So, exactly.

The ripples, right?

Yeah, very grateful.

Yeah.

All right, so that leads to the next question about your own legacy. And If you think about leaving your legacy, what is one ripple that you would like to be remembered?

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (18:30)
I mean, good question.

You know, I am always warmed. there's like, So this person I haven't heard from in, you know, forever recently reached out to me. So guess I'll tell the story and that's the legacy. It'll be the example of the legacy. And apparently we had a conversation years ago about whatever

You

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (19:07)
issue was going on with her. can't even remember the details, but she recently told me, actually thanked me. So we're talking, this is, I haven't seen her as a client or patient for over a decade. And so I recently had run into her and she said, you changed from me, from being a victim to being empowered with our conversation.

You told me that no matter what my circumstance was, I still could make the choices and decisions for my life. Not because of my past, but because that was actually great material. Those challenges were actually great material to lead my life forward. And I think that's the legacy that I am leaving or planting the seed with people is to always know that you have

a choice in how you show up to your family, to your organization, and that calm presence is the best way to make decisions. But even if you're stressed out, knowing that there is a goldmine of material to come back to calm and ease. And that's basically, she basically said that

she could choose based on the amount of tension she was experiencing. She knew that that was a choice in the making. That she could choose to be stressed out about whatever she was dealing with or not. And use that to go,

this is, I get to choose no matter my circumstances. So yeah, choice, having, letting people know that they always have a choice. Always. May not be ideal choices, right? But there's still choice.

Yeah, but it gives them the opportunity

to make these choices maybe with a different perspective.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (21:14)
Exactly. Yeah.

You are already leaving that legacy. So It was interesting in a previous conversation I had around this question, somebody's like hmm and this idea that our legacy is when we're not here anymore but that's not the case. Our legacy is actually living in us now when we're passing it on and it's part of our lives now and I think it's so important. Don't think that.

It's just when we're not on the ground or on this planet anymore, it's living and breathing. Our legacy is very much alive in what we're doing every day. So that's beautiful.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (21:46)
That's right.

Absolutely.

Practicing what we speak about. Fumbling and flailing along the way. That's being human. Yep.

Yep.

Yeah, it happens. That's part of it too. Isn't that so? ⁓

Mary, thank you so much. As always, it is a treat to speak with you. You always fill my heart and just, yeah, make me . too. So thank you so much for making me happy on this Friday afternoon.

Mary Morrison, MBA, MAc. (22:09)
Thank you.

Thank you Sabine. I am because you are. So I deeply mean that. Thank you for all the work that you're doing supporting all the people that you have gathered around you and beyond that ripple effect.