Beyond the Ladder: Leadership, Values, and the Gender Perspective

Beyond the Ladder: Leadership, Values, and the Gender Perspective

In this episode of Be The Ripple, Sabine sits down with Ben Osborn (Pfizer), Cyrus Park (Parexel), Damiano Urbinello (Merck) and Patrick Bartosch (Waypoints Communications) for a conversation about leadership and the shared values that guide how we show up, beyond titles, roles, or even gender. What began as a reflection on Sabine’s book Beyond the Ladder turned into a dialogue about whether men and women truly lead differently or, at the core, whether leadership is less about gender and more about humanity.

Together, they explore what it means to lead with empathy, integrity, and clarity. The discussion moves beyond stereotypes to uncover how trust, respect, and listening form the foundation of modern leadership. It’s a conversation that invites reflection: do our values, rather than our titles or identities, define the leaders we become?

The Story Behind the Episode

When I first invited four men to read Beyond the Ladder, I wasn’t sure what would happen. The book was written for women, rooted in stories of purpose, courage, and clarity. But I was curious: could the writing, stories, and themes resonate with men too?

From the very start, there was a sense of ease. None of them had met before, no prep calls, just four people sitting together for the first time. And somehow, the conversation found its rhythm instantly. Around the table, Ben, Cyrus, Damiano, and Patrick spoke with honesty, humility, and warmth about the leadership journey we’re all on.

Ben reflected that leadership, at its core, is about fairness, the quiet, daily practice of consistency. He spoke about trust not as an abstract idea, but as something built moment by moment, through decisions that people may not always like, but can always rely on. Fairness, he said, is a form of integrity. It’s how leaders build a foundation people can stand on. That idea rippled through the room.

Cyrus picked up that thread with calm sincerity. He was drawn to the chapters on barriers, health, and legacy, the ones that ask questions about what we’re sustaining and what we’re leaving behind. For Cyrus, these seemingly “women’s issues” held universal lessons for navigating any career obstacle, offering a map for the modern professional’s labyrinth of stress, self-doubt, and reinvention. “Legacy,” he said, “isn’t just what you build. It’s what you make possible for others.” His words reframed ambition, from something personal to something generational.

Damiano spoke about psychological safety, how compassion and permission to fail can become engines of innovation. He linked this to creativity, saying, “I think this is the starting point of innovation. Psychological safety and allowing a certain failure culture and promoting that from the top.” He challenged the idea that visibility and self-advocacy are gendered at all. “If we build systems where people feel seen and safe,” he said, “we remove the need to fight for space.”

Patrick brought a spark of energy and precision to the conversation. He challenged an enduring myth, that empathy is soft. “Empathy isn’t cute,” he said. “It’s competence.” For him, empathy and vulnerability are the markers of modern credibility, the kind of social capital that earns a leader permission to learn and grow publicly. He described vulnerability as a strategic strength not performance, but presence.

The conversation flowed easily between laughter and reflection, between quiet moments of recognition and new insights forming in real time. They spoke of role models who led with steadiness, and the courage it takes to hold your values firm when the world feels loud.

As the discussion unfolded, the focus shifted naturally from gender to what connects us as leaders. Yet, there was shared acknowledgment that empathy often feels more instinctive in women’s leadership, perhaps because it’s been encouraged, while for men, it’s still evolving into a strength we’re learning to celebrate openly.

They spoke about trust. About acting with integrity when no one is watching. About creating safety rather than control. What emerged wasn’t a conversation about difference, but about balance, a reminder that leadership at its best draws from both strength and sensitivity, strategy and empathy.

And maybe that’s where the real shift happens, when we stop asking who leads better, and start noticing how we can lead better, together.

Key Takeaways and Insights

• • Leadership is human before it is hierarchical or gendered.
  • Fairness and consistency are the cornerstones of trust.
  • Compassion and psychological safety are catalysts for innovation.
  • Empathy is not soft—it’s strategic competence.
  • Legacy is not about what you achieve; it’s about what you make possible for others.

Timestamps & Segment Titles

• [00:00] Opening Reflection: Leadership beyond gender.
• [04:15] Shared Foundations: What values connect how we lead.
• [10:30] The Power of Empathy: Listening as leadership.
• [17:40] Courage and Connection: How values guide decisions.
  
• [25:00] Changing the Frame: Leadership as humanity in practice.
• [32:00] Closing Thoughts: Beyond gender, toward integrity.

Watch or Listen:

YouTube | Spotify | Apple Podcast